Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims • Hacker News Board

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#121

Post by craftinator » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:38 PM UTC

threeseed wrote: post #57

thomascgalvin wrote: post #53

You can tell a lot about a developer by their preferred database. * Mongo: I like things easy, even if easy is dangerous. I probably write Javascript exclusively * MySQL: I don't like to rock the boat, and MySQL is available everywhere * PostgreSQL: I'm not afraid of the command line * H2: My company can't afford a database admin, so I embedded the database in our application (I have actually done this) * SQLite: I'm…

And you can tell a lot about a developer when they post comments like this. Almost none of is remotely accurate e.g. RabbitMQ isn't even a database.

And now I can tell a lot about you as a developer; maybe stay away from any kind of complex abstraction, wouldn't want it to go right over your head, ya know?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#122

Post by polote » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:40 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

Nobody seems to like it. Someone has any idea on why the company still has their revenue increasing ?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#123

Post by craftinator » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:42 PM UTC

beardbandit wrote: post #79

threeseed wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And you can tell a lot about a developer when they post comments like this. Almost none of is remotely accurate e.g. RabbitMQ isn't even a database.

Man, people really hate Mongo. We use it for a very specific use case and its been perfect for us when we need raw speed over everything. Data loss is tolerable.

It seems like you have the only good use case for it pegged down. I've worked at multiple companies that really, really didn't understand that putting something into the DB comes with some probability that it'll never come out. The arguments were "but it's a dataBASE, it stores data. They'd never sell this as a product if it LOST data; then it wouldn't be a database..."

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#124

Post by craftinator » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:43 PM UTC

DevKoala wrote: post #52

MrBuddyCasino wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MongoDB: the Snapchat of databases.

That’s mean to SnapChat.

Snapchat at least warns you that your data will disappear.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#125

Post by johannes1234321 » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:55 PM UTC

gav wrote: post #101

1123581321 wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who chose MySQL and provides direction to developers who really like Postgres, and who also uses Postgres for fun, I do find myself having to both defend MySQL as a prudent option and convince them that I know anything at all about Postgres or computer science. :)

I tend to find people who argue with me against MySQL bring up things that haven't been true in a long time such as Unicode or NULL handling. I'd probably choose Postgres over MySQL for a new project just to have the improved JSON support, but there's upsides to MySQL too: - Per-thread vs per-process connection handling - Ease of getting replication running - Ability to use alternate engines such as MyRocks

MySQL also has great JSON features (json data type, virtual indexes onnit, multi-value (array) indexes, json_table, ....)

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#126

Post by m0zg » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:56 PM UTC

ceocoder wrote: post #96

henryfjordan wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

RabbitMQ stores your data, right? Then it's a database! That's pretty much all it takes. A flat file, memory-store, SQL DB, Document store, any of them can be databases if that's where you stick your data! But also no, RabbitMQ and Kafka and the like are clearly message buses and though they might also technically qualify as a DB it would be a poor descriptor.

Ah I see, we are going with “well technically it stores something therefore it is database joke”. Now I’m fully onboard :) Back when I worked in LA my CTO used to joke that most places use Microsoft Outlook as a database and Excel as BI tool.

You laugh, but I bet Excel produces orders of magnitude more real "business intelligence" than all other "BI" tools combined.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#127

Post by therealdrag0 » Sat, May 23, 2020, 10:59 PM UTC

How is Cassandra as an alternative to MongoDB?

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#128

Post by kyllo » Sat, May 23, 2020, 11:05 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

I was floored by this comment yesterday from one of their Developer Relations people:

> Did any of you actually read the article? We are passing the Jepsen test suite and it was back in 2017 already. So, no, MongoDB is not losing anything if you know what you are doing.

https://twitter.com/MBeugnet/status/1253622755049734150?s=20

Can you imagine saying the phrase "if you know what you are doing," in public, to your users, as a DevRel person? Unbelievable.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#129

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, May 23, 2020, 11:11 PM UTC

madhadron wrote: post #27

In the circles I run in, MongoDB is regarded as a joke and the company behind it as basically duplicitous. For example, they still list Facebook as their first user of MongoDB on their website, for example, but there is no MongoDB use in Facebook hasn't been for years (it came in only via a startup acquisition). I had the misfortune to use MongoDB at a previous job. The replication protocol wasn't atomic. You would f…

Every single time I've had to work on top of a Mongo cluster, it has gone into "three stooges" mode, where each node insists that one of the others is master.

I pretty much refuse to deploy a new instance of it now, I've been burned too often.

Re: Jepsen Disputes MongoDB's Data Consistency Claims

#130

Post by ashtonkem » Sat, May 23, 2020, 11:13 PM UTC

thomascgalvin wrote: post #53

You can tell a lot about a developer by their preferred database. * Mongo: I like things easy, even if easy is dangerous. I probably write Javascript exclusively * MySQL: I don't like to rock the boat, and MySQL is available everywhere * PostgreSQL: I'm not afraid of the command line * H2: My company can't afford a database admin, so I embedded the database in our application (I have actually done this) * SQLite: I'm…

I prefer PostgreSQL, but MySQL provides a better clustering experience if you need more read capacity than a lone node can provide.

Oracle is great if and only if you have a use case that fits their strengths you have an Oracle specific DBA, and you do not care about the cost. I have been on teams where we met those criteria, and I genuinely had no complaints within that context.