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TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

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Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#121

Post by teruakohatu »

wbraun wrote: post #55

What are the near term implications of this? I was under the impression that this was always considered a pretty extreme option. Between this and the plans for the TSMC fab in the USA I wonder what suddenly shifted in US - Taiwan relations. Does this mean that Huawei loses the 5G competition because they are not going to be able to get the chips they need fabricated? Is China going to try to split up Huawei into a bu…

I am sure 5G chips can be built with older processes. They might just need more cooling and be less efficient.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#122

Post by GenericsMotors »

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #80
salimmadjd wrote: post #42

Anyone else feels this is shortsighted? Estimates are that China is 10 years away to be able to build chips domestically that can compete with TSMC. Mostly because a lot of the precision chip making technologies are hard to make and are only made by a few manufactures and their exports are controlled. However, I feel like our new competitive mindset is using the wall to block others. To wall off China to wall off imm…

Just a note on the word "nationalist" re: Taiwan. It's confusing to most, but in Taiwan, "nationalist" is the pro -China faction, due to historical association of that term with the KMT. "Green," pro-independence, or "TI" (Taiwan Independence) would be the less confusing term for the side you think might lose with this development. The TI side has been winning bigly in the past year thanks to Xi Jinping and Carrie La…

>Just a note on the word "nationalist" re: Taiwan. It's confusing to most, but in Taiwan, "nationalist" is the pro-China faction, due to historical association of that term with the KMT.

>"Green," pro-independence, or "TI" (Taiwan Independence) would be the less confusing term for the side you think might lose with this development.

TIL, thanks for sharing!

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#123

Post by foepys »

dis-sys wrote: post #107
foepys wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Didn't China require any foreign company to be controlled by Chinese to get access to the Chinese market? I heard that they relaxed those restrictions a bit to appease the WTO but in practice are often still denying basic permits for foreign companies until they can show to have a ≥51% Chinese share.

> Didn't China require any foreign company to be controlled by Chinese to get access to the Chinese market? This has been explained like hundreds of times on HN. If you truly believe such nonsense, there are one simple question to ask - what Chinese business entity is control Microsoft/Apple/Intel when they enjoyed all those revenues from the Chinese market.

I know that HN is living in a bubble but you realize that there are more industries besides tech and FAANG? Car manufacturers and their thousands of suppliers for example.

Wikipedia says regarding Volkswagen in China:

> In 1984, Volkswagen signed a 25-year contract to make passenger cars in Shanghai. Since, at that time, vehicle manufacturers could not own a majority stake in a manufacturing plant, Volkswagen's venture took the limit of 50 per cent foreign ownership.

I'm glad that someone else answered my comment sincerely instead of making a snarky comment that turns out to be wrong.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#124

Post by CogitoCogito »

adventured wrote: post #113
georgeburdell wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right but what does that have to do with a Taiwanese company? That’s the part I have trouble with. According to the U.S.’s own policy, Taiwan and what we call China are the same country. So the U.S. is putting restrictions on a company for taking business from another company from the same country. U.S. needs to work on making its foreign policy self consistent. Recognizing Taiwan as a separate country would be a gre…

> According to the U.S.’s own policy, Taiwan and what we call China are the same country. That's a mistaken interpretation and it has been clarified on numerous occasions. There are two critical words to the context: recognize and acknowledge. And two separate entities to be considered as far as the US is concerned: China and Taiwan. The US has intentionally left the situation in limbo, to neither give in to China no…

I'm a bit curious why this is being down-voted. It is certainly a 100% accurate description of United States policy.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#125

Post by microcolonel »

the_mitsuhiko wrote: post #111
ngcc_hk wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot sell certain service to china. That is not fair.

That’s true for all countries though in some capacity.

Here in Canada we should do away with our import controls on dairy as well. Advocates say it has to do with dairy quality standards, but that body of laws is completely separate from the one that institutes "supply management".

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#127

Post by microcolonel »

NonEUCitizen wrote: post #80
salimmadjd wrote: post #42

Anyone else feels this is shortsighted? Estimates are that China is 10 years away to be able to build chips domestically that can compete with TSMC. Mostly because a lot of the precision chip making technologies are hard to make and are only made by a few manufactures and their exports are controlled. However, I feel like our new competitive mindset is using the wall to block others. To wall off China to wall off imm…

Just a note on the word "nationalist" re: Taiwan. It's confusing to most, but in Taiwan, "nationalist" is the pro -China faction, due to historical association of that term with the KMT. "Green," pro-independence, or "TI" (Taiwan Independence) would be the less confusing term for the side you think might lose with this development. The TI side has been winning bigly in the past year thanks to Xi Jinping and Carrie La…

The terminology gets even more confusing when you realize that both factions of the civil war looked up to the same figure, except one viewed him as a proto-communist revolutionary, the other viewed him as a liberal nationalist revolutionary.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#128

Post by londons_explore »

someperson wrote: post #88
_ph_ wrote: post #85

This is a disaster and can get ugly very quickly. Whatever the concerns of the USA against Huawei are, trying to destroy the company by pressuring international companies in severing all ties is an extremely hostile movement. Next step, as China has already hinted towards, is actions in China against Apple. And we don't know how further the escalation will go. So far, any ambition of China towards Taiwan has been lim…

This won't kill Huawei at all, and instead of manufacturing chips with TSMC, won't they'll just switch their HiSilicon Kirin chip manufacturing to SMICs' 14nm process? I know it's no longer useful to compare process node sizes between companies anymore, but for what it's worth Intel is still stuck on 14nm and they're still considered by many a competitive chip-making titan. Also remember when United States pulled a s…

> his won't kill Huawei at all

The goal isn't to kill Huawei... it's to make sure that Huawei 5G tech is delayed by 1 or 2 years. Banning their already-designed chips from shipping is a good way to delay them by a year or two.

Most of the USA doesn't even have 5G deployed yet, and the US is hoping local manufacturers will get the local market as well as lots of the world market.

Re: TSMC halts new Huawei orders after US tightens restrictions

#130

Post by Nokinside »

tanilama wrote: post #126

TSMC had denied this through Chinese media. Might need to wait for sometime to see exactly what its position in all these. My bet it will eventually comply but leave some vagueness here and there. After all, hurting TSMC is hurting the world.

The timing of this with the mixed messages makes me think that Washington tried to dupe TSMC/Taiwan.

Washington waited until the new fab deal was done before putting TSMC into crossfire. If that's the case, it probably backfires and the US must make hard choices.

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