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U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

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Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#121

Post by screye »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #80
rory096 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sounds like it's still above 0 Because of frictional unemployment, it's neither possible nor desirable for the unemployment rate to reach 0. >which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. This is already a requirement; H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so. >It's so str…

> * H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so.* How effectively is this enforced? The arguments against these visa is that companies know how to game this requirement. They specifically write job descriptions in a way that’ll fail to find someone locally, so they can hire cheaper immigrant labor. And cheaper isn’t just lower salaries, they’ll…

Maybe then easing the restrictions on immigrant employees might be the solution.

Max 60 days of unemployment over your whole career, when many companies need a month to go from offer to starting, makes being fired a fatal affair. H1B applications being cancelled, if someone switches companies means in the first few years, changing companies is even worse.

Oh, you've been working in the US for 20 years ? Hard luck, you still don't have a permanent residency because of some archaic system. No, your wife can't work in the US either. Also, you can't avail any of the benefits you already pay taxes for. You lose your job and your child is a US citizen ? Hard luck, take them back to where you came from. Because, having immigrant parents is a crime enough to banish even your own citizen.

The visa system is built to encourage abuse. Just because the trade off is worth it, doesn't mean it is fair or a favor. It is a system built to be of maximal benefit to America. Which is fine, but let's not pretend it is some sort of gift that is granted to people of other nations. It's the govt. driving a hard bargain because they know they can.

Now, my career does grow 2x as fast and I do make 2x as much by working in the US. I also do not have kids, partners or a life in the US, that it would destroy me to leave the country. I am also fortunate enough to be in a company that doesn't usually fire willy-nilly. So, I continue to stay. But, in 5 or so years, I wouldn't be too sure.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#122

Post by tareqak »

MichaelApproved wrote: post #80
rory096 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Sounds like it's still above 0 Because of frictional unemployment, it's neither possible nor desirable for the unemployment rate to reach 0. >which means you should be forced to source local talent before you're permitted to source from outside the country. This is already a requirement; H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so. >It's so str…

> * H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so.* How effectively is this enforced? The arguments against these visa is that companies know how to game this requirement. They specifically write job descriptions in a way that’ll fail to find someone locally, so they can hire cheaper immigrant labor. And cheaper isn’t just lower salaries, they’ll…

I’m genuinely curious as to what one of these job descriptions look like. I’m not at all doubting the existence of this sort of behavior.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#123

Post by screye »

blisterpeanuts wrote: post #64
KorematsuFred wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are over 200k Indians who are stuck on h1b for more than 10 years. Most of which have us born kids. Makes no sense to have a 60 day freeze on h1bs

10 years in the U.S.? I thought the path to citizenship or green card was 5 years, or 7 years at most? This is really not a very fair system.

Hah, the 10 years estimate is totally false.

Present estimates put it between 50 - 150 years. Yes, I kid you not. The path to GC for Indians, might as well be closed shut for all intents and purposes.

https://www.am22tech.com/eb2-india-predictions/

https://medium.com/@happy_sushi_roll/the-endless-wait-for-a-...

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#124

Post by [deleted] »

ramraj07 wrote: post #107
JackPoach wrote: post #40

I think this is quite good in a strange way. Nobody was happy about H1-B. Tech companies were complaining that quotas were too low. Skilled workers complained that this is a ploy to keep costs down, especially in academia. I've once heard an American PhD say 'I am not afraid of competing with very smart Chinese or Indian scientists. But they are making me compete with 10 mediocre Chinese or Indian PhDs and nobody can…

I am one of those Indian PhDs. Many of my friends are. I suppose it's easy for you and your friend (let's not get into an argument about who's stupider) to sip some coffee and say let's blow it up and wait for a few years when you have no personal effect. Meanwhile I'm back in India, and completely lost in my mind on where and how I should proceed with my career. I'm of the view that a country can choose whatever the…

[deleted]

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#126

Post by screye »

Genuine question for anti-H1B people on this thread.

Do you think there should be a pathway to immigration for someone not from the US ? (Not just Indians/Chinese)

_______________________________________________________

Because honestly, there really isn't any at all. If all work visas are supposed to not have a pathway to citizenship. Then how is someone supposed to make it in ?

The diversity PR ? Which is almost explicitly an Anti-big country immigration visa, which even then, only has a 0.5% success rate ? (It is kind of hilarious that the visa thinks EU countries add more diversity to the US than those from other nations)

Or the investor PR ? ie. bribe your way into a GC.

Or be religious minister ? Because for some reason priests are a more productive part of society than people with PhDs.

Or should they be refugees. Which is also GC that has fallen out of favor among US politicians.

You say the H1B is a backdoor. But look at the other categories. People in the arts and general administration abuse the Eb1 GC. On the other hand it is almost impossible to get the EB1 GB without a willing employer (usually needs to be in research) and a top tier PhD.

Also, it is not just Indians. How do you think Europeans have historically immigrated to the US. Come over on an employment visa and then get a GC. Just because the ethnicity of the applicants has changed, doesn't mean that the system wasn't always in place. It is referred to as dual-intent for a reason.

I understand if the US wants to suddenly stop being a country that wants immigrants. But, they continue to sell the American dream, their inclusivity and proudly claim the the creations of 1st and 2nd gen immigrants as their own. That, makes them seem really hypocritical.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#127

Post by deogeo »

macspoofing wrote: post #51
curiousllama wrote: post #16

This is a backdoor immigration cut, nothing more. COVID is irrelevant. Remember that it's not just new entrants that need H1B processing: it's immigrants currently in the country that need to transfer their visa type (e.g., former students moving from OPT to H1B). What, are they supposed to leave or risk being denied a visa forevermore? Not to mention, they've already paused green card processing and shut down most o…

>This is a backdoor immigration cut, nothing more. COVID is irrelevant. I think COVID is very relevant. But you are also correct that this action is in line with the present administration's immigration policies outside of COVID. In the big picture on the global scale, we're looking at a back-peddling on globalization (which includes immigration and free trade). The echos of the Great Depression should be (but aren't…

> in line with the present administration's immigration policies outside of COVID.

According to [1], the immigration rate under Trump has slightly increased compared to under Obama, and is at 3x what it was during 1960-1975. So the policies you refer to are nothing but ineffectual noise.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immigration_to_the_United_Stat..., table "Persons obtaining legal permanent resident status by fiscal year"

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#128

Post by screye »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #108
screye wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your typical tech company is likely to be sophisticated enough to onboard skilled workers outside the US and support them working remotely, in which case, they are not impacted by this policy. Do you really think that ? We have worked with team members in different time zones (Europe, India, China), and even with WFH it is a massive headache to work with someone whose schedule runs with a 12 hour offset. Also, the…

> Do you really think that ? Yes. I have worked at both at a successful (ie profitable) fully remote startup that employs hundreds of people, and now at an enterprise that is fully remote with thousands of employees across several continents. If you can't manage teams remotely, you can't manage.

Wow, that is a strong claim.

Not all companies are structured to be innately remote. My team for instance is really struggling to adjust to remote settings, despite having a flexible WFH setup and working closely with remotely located teams before.

It is little things. Relationships between colleagues get colder. The people I used to see daily were also great friends of mine. Giving constructive feedback and taking criticism is a lot easier when it is by a friend and face to face. Meetings lose the wonderful flow they can have when in person. Brainstorming and white boarding has all but disappeared.

The way I see it, with no offense meant. If your work can be done fully remotely. Maybe it isn't that difficult to begin with. Big decisions need big discussions and big consensus. My best progress has been made when I get a room together with a team mate, with a huge board and we brainstorm for hours on end. 90% of the time coding is the easiest part of the job. That it can be done remotely, doesn't alleviate the bottleneck much.

Or maybe if your team consisted of introverted, brutally objective people from the get go, who like the additional coldness of remote communication, then sure. But, it actively excludes a lot of the workforce.

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#129

Post by MichaelApproved »

tareqak wrote: post #122
MichaelApproved wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> * H-1B employers must attest that they can't find an employee domestically and have made a good faith attempt to do so.* How effectively is this enforced? The arguments against these visa is that companies know how to game this requirement. They specifically write job descriptions in a way that’ll fail to find someone locally, so they can hire cheaper immigrant labor. And cheaper isn’t just lower salaries, they’ll…

I’m genuinely curious as to what one of these job descriptions look like. I’m not at all doubting the existence of this sort of behavior.

One common tactic is adding more duty requirements to the description. For example, the job description would ask a database admin to manage multiple database products but, in reality, they'd only be managing one.

Finding someone with knowledge of multiple products would be hard, so they list all of them. When they can't find someone with those skills, they ask for a visa to find someone who can.

In reality, that person doesn't actually know and won't actually be managing all those products.

That method is so common, it's listed on the gov't website:

> The H-1B worker is not performing the duties specified in the H-1B petition, including when the duties are at a higher level than the position description.

https://www.uscis.gov/report-fraud/combating-fraud-and-abuse...

Re: U.S. Senators Advocate H-1B Freeze for 60 Days or Longer

#130

Post by curiousllama »

Traster wrote: post #110
Upvoter33 wrote: post #20

Of course, doing so will do very little to nothing for American workers. Companies who want the top talent will go where the top talent lives, and this may just speed up the process (one example could be a simple adjustment to hire more folks in Vancouver, for example). Somehow, some people in the US forget that yesterday's immigrant is today's citizen.

I'm not straight out saying you're wrong, but I don't see the evidence that this is obviously true. There's an equally compelling line of logic that by removing H1-B visas you create less supply for those jobs in the US, driving up wages for local workers and encouraging more local people to train up to take those jobs - because of the higher rewards. Will companies just immediately decide to hire in another country?…

I recently worked as a consultant doing back office talent sourcing work. It is a stated, explicit ambition in the industry to offshore & automate as much work as humanly possible.

You're thinking, reasonably, that companies aren't going to go through the trouble of immediately opening a whole office in Bangalore for a few QA testers. You're right. They're either going to (1) offshore to an MSP (2) automate or (3) just not do QA, and (without realizing) just let bad code get written.

Now that IT is working remotely anyway, why the heck NOT call Cap Gemini? Presto - we have QA. Who cares if they're in Penang?

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