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Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

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Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#121

Post by Apocryphon »

pb7 wrote: post #105
Apocryphon wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't exactly the first time Facebook has been called out for poor engineering practices: https://www.darkcoding.net/software/facebooks-code-quality-p... https://blog.timac.org/2017/0410-analysis-of-the-facebook-ap...

So what? They're an enormous engineering company with many millions of lines of code. Bugs are expected.

Those criticisms aren't about mere bugs, but a bloated over-engineered iOS apps with far too many classes (18k back in 2015) [0]. The Android app was also previously notorious for patching Dalvik at runtime to deal with the huge number of Java methods [1].

Granted, perhaps things have gotten better in the last five years.

It's certainly possible for an enormous engineering company to have poor code quality or poor engineering practices, despite having a high interviewing standard. And a criticism of Facebook need not be a criticism of all companies that interview by Leetcode, for instance no one here is criticizing Google, Amazon, or Apple, and all have better reputations for code quality.

[0] https://www.reddit.com/r/iOSProgramming/comments/6upeu6/how_...

[1] https://www.facebook.com/notes/facebook-engineering/under-th...

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#122

Post by Analemma_ »

scarface74 wrote: post #102
baddox wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's difficult to argue about whether it's "surreptitious." It's certainly no secret. I think this is why you need organizations (perhaps government or otherwise) to establish standards for what is and isn't acceptable, so we don't have to quibble over words like "surreptitiously."

Having a government full of technical lot illiterate politicians regulating digital advertisement - what could possibly go wrong.

Then that's the fault of companies who fucked up self-regulation so badly that the government has to step in. If they had behaved, this wouldn't be necessary.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#123

Post by Nextgrid »

mynameisvlad wrote: post #106
ethanbond wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fuck, I've been paying for Spotify as an act of charity?

Spotify is actually using Facebook for login, though, so they don't necessarily use App Ads. The original commenter only said that it's the reason most (but not all) apps use the SDK.

Facebook Login can be implemented with plain oAuth without sending any data to Facebook until the user actually uses the FB Login feature.

Regardless of which SDK features they use the SDK calls out to Facebook with the device's fingerprint and a persistent UUID every time the app is launched or brought back into foreground.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#124

Post by pikma »

freeone3000 wrote: post #97
bzb3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the software developer didn't get anything off you they wouldn't make the software available to you in the first place.

Maybe they could try the novel method of charging money instead of buying ads to get users to show ads to.

Apps that are based on a subscription model also advertise for their apps, the two issues are orthogonal.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#125

Post by myko »

freeone3000 wrote: post #97
bzb3 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the software developer didn't get anything off you they wouldn't make the software available to you in the first place.

Maybe they could try the novel method of charging money instead of buying ads to get users to show ads to.

That makes sense if you're talking about ads in the app, but that wasn't the discussion. The discussion is about the marketing folks running ads on Facebook for the app and wanting to know how effective those ads were.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#126

Post by rescbr »

nofunsir wrote: post #96
sunsetMurk wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer. I mostly agree. But, in some(most) also the user by encouraging the developer to release updates and launch new features.

release forced updates and launch no new features, but "general bug fixes and performance enhancements."

I’ve got tons of apps in my App Store’s update queue, some that I haven’t updated for a couple months and they still work perfectly. Uber is one that comes to mind. They keep changing the UI while I keep using the same version from ages ago. I don’t bother updating anymore, it’s just noise.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#127

Post by mynameisvlad »

ethanbond wrote: post #116
mynameisvlad wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spotify is actually using Facebook for login, though, so they don't necessarily use App Ads. The original commenter only said that it's the reason most (but not all) apps use the SDK.

Ah. I'm thankful for the opportunity, err... requirement to trade my privacy for others to have one fewer password to deal with. And of course for Facebook to have more personal data to munch on.

I'm not really sure what the problem is here. You are perfectly free to not use Spotify, or any other app that chooses to utilize Facebook login or other components of the Facebook SDK. Spotify made their choice to use the SDK for whatever gains they get out of it, and as a customer you can choose to not use their service or app if you disagree with that.

There's even comments in this HN thread that point you on how to do it on Android if you're so inclined.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#128

Post by yllus »

Nextgrid wrote: post #120
yllus wrote: post #36

For those wondering why the Facebook SDK is so widely used in popular mobile apps: Facebook Login is actually in the minority of reasons to add the Facebook SDK to your mobile app. The vast majority of apps will add the Facebook SDK because it contains Facebook App Ads; a library that "completes the circle" in terms of finding out how effectively the ads you ran on Facebook were at getting people to download, install…

This is also not GDPR compliant, not that anyone actually bothers to enforce the law. If we respect the GDPR then data sharing for Facebook Login should only happen once the user presses the Facebook login button (as at that point the data sharing becomes essential to provide the functionality). As far as ad/marketing attribution it should be opt-in as that is not an essential requirement to provide the service (and…

Re: Ad/marketing attribution, that's not necessary correct. If the data point that gets sent back to Facebook is a GUID type string that matches the GUID that got generated when you first clicked the Facebook ad for the app and doesn't include data about you specifically, I believe that's fine. I don't myself have up-to-date information what data Facebook receives via its SDK but I suspect it is GPDR compliant through such methods.

GPDR specifically allows for anonymized/aggregated data on app usage or marketing feedback: https://gdpr.eu/eu-gdpr-personal-data/

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#129

Post by Nicksil »

bzb3 wrote: post #75
Nicksil wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Is that "spyware"? Yes, absolutely. It uses energy and bandwidth I paid for to surreptitiously transmit my information for use which will solely benefit Facebook and the software developer.

If the software developer didn't get anything off you they wouldn't make the software available to you in the first place.

>If the software developer didn't get anything off you they wouldn't make the software available to you in the first place.

A lot of software these days don't offer a way for casual users (read: not enterprise/small business) to pay for it. It's "free" or nothing.

Re: Facebook iOS SDK Remotely Crashing Spotify, TikTok, Pinterest, Winno and More

#130

Post by Waterluvian »

yllus wrote: post #36

For those wondering why the Facebook SDK is so widely used in popular mobile apps: Facebook Login is actually in the minority of reasons to add the Facebook SDK to your mobile app. The vast majority of apps will add the Facebook SDK because it contains Facebook App Ads; a library that "completes the circle" in terms of finding out how effectively the ads you ran on Facebook were at getting people to download, install…

Don't mind me. I'm just going to come into your house and record what commercials you are watching. I'm not spyware I'm just _merely_ wanting to know about my marketing budget.

Analogy may not be perfect but it takes serious mental gymnastics to fail to see this as spyware, in my opinion.

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