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The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

sfmayor.org

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Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#121

Post by newacct583 »

skellington wrote: post #107
newacct583 wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ease up how? I mean, what's the specific proposal? The lockdown isn't "total" anyway -- very large numbers of people are still working at full salary (including, it must be pointed out, probably more than half the readers of this very site). There's little to no low hanging fruit of safe jobs that can be reopened. Just go look at the California list of "essential" jobs and tell us what needs to be added. Fundamentall…

Are you not aware that "lockdown" covers a wide continuum of practices?! Ease up can mean a lot of things between what we have now and no lockdown whatsoever. What level of easing depends on the goal and the data showing what level of control is being achieved.

I'm painfully aware, which is why I asked the question. Who would you like to see back to work, and are you certain they're not already on the list of essential positions?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#122

Post by allq »

tptacek wrote: post #78
djrogers wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sadly you seem to be of the opinion that we can cower in our homes until the disease magically goes away. That's not the way this works - it doesn't just go away. I'm really disturbed by the number of people who seem to be perfectly happy moving the goalposts for these lockdowns as long as they're politically popular. Here's a hint - freedom and constitutional rights weren't intended to be politically popular (or par…

This isn't responsive to anything I'm saying; it merely repeats points you've made earlier more emotively. I think you're going to find that the message board logic of "a-ha, I read a tweet that says the goal of lockdown is flattening the curve; now that curves may be flattening lockdown has to end" isn't going to get you very far in the real world.

The only one here parroting message boards in a pseudo-intellectual manner is our HN internet points medalist.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#123

Post by jshevek »

primeradical wrote: post #49
marcell wrote: post #5

Blanket lockdown has to end. This policy has outlived its usefulness, and is harming people's quality of life without a clear goal. The initial premise of the "flatten the curve" memes was to avoid overwhelming hospitals. The shelter-in-place has not only had this effect, it's been too effective. Hospital utilization in the bay area is at around 10% when you count surge capacity that has been added [1]. Meanwhile, da…

To anyone reading the comment above, it is extremely poor advice and should not be followed. Stay at home and shelter in place orders are not solely for the purpose of protecting ones-self from contracting the virus. They also serve to limit the spread from unsuspecting carriers. You can carry and spread the virus unknowingly and this will result in susceptible people contracting it and dying. The only way we know th…

> This is not the time for egocentric defiance of the recommendations from our leaders.

This is not a fair representation of the alternative and contrary viewpoints.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#124

Post by skellington »

quotemstr wrote: post #32
wiredone wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There seems to a ton of people with long term organ damage from this thing. Brushing it aside as a non event for everyone else is dangerously misinformed.

> There seems to a ton of people with long term organ damage from this thing Are there? I've seen only a few isolated anecdotes. In any illness affecting tens of thousands, there will be a few who experience particularly severe complications. It's not useful to portray these complicated and severe outliers as being typical. Right now, the data show that the vast majority of people who contract this virus fight it off…

People are irrationally terrified by COVID. There is of course a rational level of respect we should have for it, but people are TERRIFIED. That's why you are getting downvoted (and I will too probably).

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#125

Post by bryanmgreen »

hombre_fatal wrote: post #4

I'm lucky enough to have remote work. And I'm sure many HNers have a nice buffer of savings from their tech jobs to weather the storm or are getting paid time off. But can anyone share what it's like to not be in either of these situations? How are your rent lords handling things? I live abroad in a cheap country so I can handle zero income, but I wouldn't be able to last long if rent was $2000+/mo instead of the Yet…

It’s a little scary.

I was laid off last year from a non-tech job and at the time, had savings and unemployment to not worry about paying $1800 for rent plus reduced additional expenses for a respectable while (without losing everything) but it's a very different story now.

Since COVID, my landlord said he could let me defer payments for a few months, but honestly that’s not helpful at all since I’ll have to pay in full eventually.

I previously felt relatively comfortable with my opportunities to find new employment in marketing or a career switch to product management. But now, cash is low and what few jobs are available are flooded with applications and high competition from all the layoffs. I can't even get a food delivery gig because they have so many applications.

It could be worse, but my wallet and savings are taking a serious beating and probably will for quite a while.

So if anyone has ANY marketing or PM needs or questions......... Say hi, email in bio! Happy to connect at the very least.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#126

Post by smallgovt »

newacct583 wrote: post #83
crocodiletears wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can ease up on the lockdown without ending it. That's what I read the parent to be implying.

Ease up how? I mean, what's the specific proposal? The lockdown isn't "total" anyway -- very large numbers of people are still working at full salary (including, it must be pointed out, probably more than half the readers of this very site). There's little to no low hanging fruit of safe jobs that can be reopened. Just go look at the California list of "essential" jobs and tell us what needs to be added. Fundamentall…

Um, I'm not sure if you're being serious, but there are plenty of ways to gradually re-open. As an example:

step 1) re-open elementary schools

step 2) re-open middle schools

step 3) re-open high schools & colleges

step 4) re-open all small businesses that do not result in gatherings of more than 2 people in one place, then 5, then 10, then 20, then 50

I'm not saying that's the right approach but there is certainly middle ground between current shutdowns and a total re-opening of society.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#127

Post by guygurari »

tptacek wrote: post #20
marcell wrote: post #5

Blanket lockdown has to end. This policy has outlived its usefulness, and is harming people's quality of life without a clear goal. The initial premise of the "flatten the curve" memes was to avoid overwhelming hospitals. The shelter-in-place has not only had this effect, it's been too effective. Hospital utilization in the bay area is at around 10% when you count surge capacity that has been added [1]. Meanwhile, da…

We in fact know very little about the consequences of serious C19 infections in people under 50, and people in their 40s apparently make up a substantial cohort of ICU C19 patients. We also don't know the long-term health implications of a severe C19 case, and there's some evidence to suggest permanent lung damage is one possible outcome. And, even if we didn't know any of those things, avoiding the deaths of people…

We don’t know enough so let’s stop the economy while we find out? That is not typically how we do things, because it’s not a rational response. For example, we didn’t know whether holding a mobile phone close to our ear for extended periods of time leads to serious health issues, and there was suspicion that it does. But we didn’t prohibit it — we let people decide for themselves, and it does seem the risk was lower than suspected.

What’s happening now seems more like a knee-jerk reaction than the result of a cost-benefit analysis.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#128

Post by cpncrunch »

newacct583 wrote: post #95
cpncrunch wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in BC we don't have such restrictive conditions, and yet we still have very few cases. Vancouver has about 76% of the population of SF, but has half the number of cases. Restricting people to be at home has no benefit, no logic behind it, but has significant repercussions on mental health.

My understanding is that the Vancouver lockdown is largely identical to the California one, no? What is open there that isn't in CA? I know restaurants, theaters, large gatherings, etc... are all closed, which is the economic activity most of the "reopen" people are concerned about. Edit to note: two responses "disagreeing" with me by pointing out that the BC lockdown is effectively the same thing as the California o…

No. We are allowed to drive. All workplaces are open except for places like restaurants, personal service businesses, gyms and theatres. Other businesses just have to ensure distancing.

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#129

Post by maverick2007 »

justin66 wrote: post #79
djrogers wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The purpose of the lockdown is not to prevent everyone from getting the disease, or to hide in our homes until it magically goes away. The stated purpose of the lockdown was to 'flatten the curve'. Don't go moving goalposts on us all now that we've flattened the curve, especially when we're talking about people's constitutional rights.

The only thing that is going to keep the curve flat (this is kind of a mind-numbing terminology) is human behavior. Exponential growth is still a thing, and we aren't anywhere near achieving herd immunity. (a physician friend mentioned the other day that we're not truly certain yet that COVID 19 sufferers cannot be reinfected, although that's the popular assumption. So there's also that)

Out of curiosity because I have little to no knowledge of immunology: what do you think that means if someone that already had the disease can be reinfected? Does that have any implication on the efficacy of a vaccine?

Re: The San Francisco Bay Area shelter-in-place order is being extended through May

#130

Post by [deleted] »

glofish wrote: post #38
smallgovt wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How is it moral to order people to shelter in place when their risk of death is 0.01% for 18-45 year olds The data from your second source indicates that the case fatality rate in New York for 18-45 yr olds is 0.833% (14 deaths in 1705 confirmed cases). Where are you getting 0.01% from?

the number of cases (infections) is at least an order of magnitude higher than the reported numbers.

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