Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is an interesting thing for a guy who's been registered for a half hour to say.
I'm a web standards astroturfer, myself.
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IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
121–130 of 158 posts
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#122Earlier quoted context omitted.
How is that a valid point? In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Even if it's good for the users, it's their users, and it's entirely logical for them to want to keep them.
In the same (not so) alternate universe where Microsoft offer you the choice of a host of browsers when you first launch IE? And just because it's the logical thing for them to do, it doesn't mean it's a good idea for our industry.
That choice was forced on them by regulators. They didn't choose it.
The parent said that he didn't think it was best for our industry, but that it wouldn't be in Microsoft's best interest to do it.
Does Microsoft believe it's in the industry's best interest to recommend other browsers? I doubt it. My guess is that they still believe in their own vision of the future and want to keep their customers so they have a chance to build it.
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#123With Win7, using Chrome, the site offers IE9 only, not IE8. I'm quite pleased to be seeing this from MS, no need to be snobby about it and put down IE overall. If it wasn't for the free availability of IE in Windows, we wouldn't be using the web 24 hours of every day.
Netscape Navigator was free to consumers, and was the fastest growing software product in history before Microsoft started bundling IE. We'd still be using the web anyway.
The free availability of IE bundled with Windows just stifled competition in the browser space, causing stagnation of the web until other companies with deep pockets financed alternatives. (Apple - Webkit and Safari, and Google - Firefox and Chrome)
If Microsoft had kept developing IE at the same rate as they did between IE3 and IE6, I doubt anyone would be putting them down.
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#124Earlier quoted context omitted.
And replace it with what? Companies that will charge 30% of all the money for content that goes through their devices?
What's their take on XBox 360 games? Oh, yeah, about that.
The XBox is not being billed as a 'Post-PC era' device unlike the iDevices.
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#125Earlier quoted context omitted.
Somehow the Chrome, Firefox, Safari, and Opera teams manage to provide a modern browser on Windows XP. This isn't about "finding something to complain about". I want a modern web, and I want Microsoft to get out of the way of that happening.
I find it amazing that people seem to be more concerned about upgrading the browser than upgrading the OS. The delta between XP and Win7 is so much larger than IE8 and IE9 that having this discussion is almost embarrassing. While I get that this may make the life of the HTML5 dev easier -- its just dwarfed by the importance of getting people off of a dangerous OS. While in theory it would be nice to see MS support XP…
Uh,
Actually, the need to upgrade anything and everything is a bit overdone. What, in particular, is your problem with XP?
The MS monopoly thrives on the need for a regular update, needed or not. Windows XP is a great OS IMHO - it's a shame MS found it convenient to ditch support for it.
OSes aren't new. We've been doing them a long time. MS may say there are things missing from XP but it satisfies a lot of needs - for example, it runs Firefox quite well.
Now browsers, in particular, are still in a state of flux. With browser, in particular, upgrading matters. That also might not continue forever but its true now.
The browser you use impact me because I care about what you see. The OS you use does NOT impact me because only you see it.
Uh, and Win7 doesn't run on a lot of hardware and MS probably isn't going offer Ubuntu anytime in the next supereon (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epoch_(geology)#Terminology).
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#126It's funny how people bicker on here. And of course, everyone asks me for my opinion at work/in public on these matters.
Here's my OS usage on a daily basis: -Windows 7 -Windows XP -Windows Vista -Windows Server 2008 -Windows Server 2008R2 -Windows Server 2003 -Windows 2000 Server -Ubuntu Linux
And my browser usage: -IE8 -IE9 RC1 -Chrome (latest dev build) -FF4 (latest beta)
I use IE8 for testing flaws in the web-apps at work since our developers code against IE8. I have been giving IE9 a shot and like it so far. Chrome is my default and primary browser for the fact that quite a few sites don't like IE9 yet. And I use FF4 for certain sites that refuse to work properly in Chrome, don't work properly in IE9, and I don't feel like firing my VMs up for IE8.
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Within the scope of this discussion, that's somewhat facetious. The main reason cited for wanting people to move off IE6 is security concerns rather than HTML5 support, and for good reason - I don't care whether people can use the latest-greatest version of gmail, I care whether they're unduly liable to become part of a botnet that can bring down gmail for everyone.
That's not my reason, and I've never once mentioned it. I don't care a bit about other people's security. It's an important issue, but life is short, and I've got other stuff to worry about. My applications have to run in people's browsers...if there are a significant number of people using crappy old browsers (of which IE8 is one), it affects my life and my use of time.
Alright, well I'm in security and I want people off Windows XP. What now? Do we fight over who has the more self-serving agenda?
Please. Since when did Hacker News become about pandering to software development subfields?
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
> In what alternate universe is it a good idea for Microsoft to attempt to convert their users to a non-Microsoft browser (from Microsoft's stand-point)? Exactly. It's stupid for Microsoft, but everyone else would benefit from no longer having to cope with Internet Explorer. Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing their browsers and that would certainly improve their bottom line (much like abandonin…
The only people "coping" with IE are Web developers. Most users that have something greater than IE6 never even notice that poor experience nor do they know any better to begin with -- I don't even think a lot of users could tell the difference if you showed them. Try showing your grandmother why Chrome is better. I know I would have a hard time "selling it." >Heck. Even Microsoft would stop spending money developing…
I tried to get my open source-hostile roomate to care about firefox for a year and a half and he never gave a shit, and then one day he downloaded Chrome and never looked back. Something about how it had the most room for the page.
Re: IE6countdown.com – a wolf in sheep's clothing
#129Has anybody tested that the banner renders find in IE6 ;-)?