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“Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

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Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#121
post #9
post #4

Not to be pessimistic but I assume when a CEO cuts their salary there are other forms of compensation like stock. Maybe someone here with more experience can weigh in? Cutting $70k only helps one person keep their job. How many employees do they have? Anyways, I still applaud his desire to keep 100% of his employees. It is noble. Board and shareholders might disagree but it is nice to see someone looking out for the…

Did a little more poking around but he also gave up his stocks and savings according to this tweet: https://twitter.com/DanPriceSeattle/status/12334746629670051...

The article states that he did that in 2015. This tweet is retrospective.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#122
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business owner here. First, let me dispel the myth that business owners are wealthy. All of my friends from school have more liquid assets than I do. I am utterly broke unless you count for the paper wealth of my company shares. When COVID hit, within a week we had customers dropping out of our sales funnel. Half of our expected revenue growth disappeared as customers decided to reduce risk and stick with existing so…

If you pay your employees and you pay taxes then saving your company is already a worthwhile investment for the taxpayer. Governments are typically not very good at owning companies.

The government could push for policies policy, like workers boards, with it's equity.

We should nationalize and then spin off as coops. Something needs to break the anti-democratic workplace.

Or I'll put it this way: The government policy should be that capitalists might rather go bankrupt than be bailed out with concessions.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#123
post #99
post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

Business owner here. First, let me dispel the myth that business owners are wealthy. All of my friends from school have more liquid assets than I do. I am utterly broke unless you count for the paper wealth of my company shares. When COVID hit, within a week we had customers dropping out of our sales funnel. Half of our expected revenue growth disappeared as customers decided to reduce risk and stick with existing so…

[flagged]

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It kinda happened with Gamestop here. They tried to classify themselves as essential business first ( I kinda bought the argument btw. - there are people who don't handle isolation well; entertainment helps ), but after backlash all of a sudden delivery @door came into being. I will add that all of a sudden, I have way more respect for Amazon ( not for their employee practices ; it is a separate can of worms ). Their…

I'm kinda curious what role Gamestop would be considered essential when you have alternative ways to purchase games such as Steam, XBox/Playstation stores and just simply Amazon. At this point it wouldn't be worth the risk to allow people to get games at a slightly better price because it is used at Gamestop.

They carry a lot of portable systems ( psp, various nintendos ). Some people also want physical copies ( me ).I get that internet as a gaming portal is here to stay ( I have Steam and GOG ), but I don't believe single ecommerce site should be the answer.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#125
For some companies the choice is between laying off some workers now, or all workers a few months from now.

Large companies with cash in the bank may not have this problem, but small businesses often only have a few months of runway.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#126
post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

Let's remember that the businesses need this bailout because state and local governments forced them to cease operations for an unspecified amount of time.

It's entirely reasonable for businesses to be compensated by the government in this situation. It's also reasonable to point out that the compensation is not enough, and it won't come soon enough, and some businesses will need to lay off staff to survive until they get the check.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#127
post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And the principle of really existing free market theory is: free markets are fine for you, but not for me. That’s, again, near a universal. So you — whoever you may be — you have to learn responsibility, and be subjected to market discipline, it’s good for your character, it’s tough love, and so on, and so forth. But me, I need the nanny State, to protect me from market discipline, so that I’ll be able to rant and r…

First, this is nothing like 2008, to which it's being compared. In 2008 you had misbehaving companies taking huge risks with the (correct) assumption that they were too big to fail. But what we have now is the government forcing businesses closed. It only makes sense that the government provide some assistance to those companies. It feels great to quote Chomsky and to feel morally pure, I've certainly done it. But th…

> But the truth is you would not like the result of that purity should the government follow that advice.

I would prefer companies that buy back stock, pay ridiculous salaries and bonuses to execs, have giant golden parachutes, and so forth use the capital to secure themselves for situations like these. I think bailing out companies that have demonstrated that the government bailout is their risk mitigation strategy should be allowed to die. Yes, that would suck more right now, but it would mean that from here on out companies have to act 'just a little bit more' responsibly.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#128
I don't know much about this guy but when I hear a founder CEO cutting his pay to $0, I have to roll my eyes. Vast majority of CEO comp is in equity so cutting base pay to $0 has no material meaning. In addition, successful founder CEOs have typically already cashed out to the tune of millions of dollars while still retaining significant stock. With that much cash in the bank + ownership stack, the annual salaries or bonuses are icing on the cake. No CEO without a significant ownership stack is going to settle with $0 or even $70k.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#129
post #99
post #7

What I've been hearing on the internet is that companies are racing to lay off as many people as they need to now, before applying for their free bailout money from the government. It also sounds like businesses are trying to lay off more than they actually need to lay off, in order to get the maximum benefit. The terms of the bailout loans are such that they can lay off people before they apply, get the money, and s…

Business owner here. First, let me dispel the myth that business owners are wealthy. All of my friends from school have more liquid assets than I do. I am utterly broke unless you count for the paper wealth of my company shares. When COVID hit, within a week we had customers dropping out of our sales funnel. Half of our expected revenue growth disappeared as customers decided to reduce risk and stick with existing so…

> A small stake in each company, for instance, that we have the option of buying back at cost later. Because if society is supporting my business, society should have a stake in its recovery.

If businesses can buy it back at cost later, is this not a textbook example of moral hazard?

Now I in no way believe you, or business people like you, are responsible for this debacle any more than the average person on the street - rather, it is these gigantic but incredibly fragile corporations that have optimized for profitability at the expense of stability/resiliency who have put the entire country in an extremely precarious place. Again. 12 years after the last one, which a lot of "non-expert" people saw coming, while the "expert" economists and policy makers poo-poo'd these warnings, patting these people on the head as if they were children who are unable to think on the same level as them. Technically, they are right, in a way - us regular folks truly do not think on the same level as them, in that we tend to not posses the magnitude of arrogance and self-confidence it requires to drive straight into a clearly visible wall at top speed, while ignoring all warnings.

Will we learn anything this time? I predict we won't, and I speculate that the core reason is that we have a fundamental problem in our culture. Our cultural axioms (the way we believe reality is, the way we believe society and commerce should be structured, etc) contain imperfections. Until we are willing to consider this possibility, and then proceed with a serious[1] post incident analysis, with a goal of honestly identifying shortcomings and setting out to fix them for good, I'm afraid we will repeat this whole process over again within 20 years.

Think about the magnitude of the aggregate intelligence that exists within the HN community, with broad expertise across many domains. And not just HN, but all the various communities out there. Imagine if these "non-experts" were to one day say: "We have had enough. Let's stop fighting among each other, put our heads together, and start writing policy papers of how this should be done, go through a standard process of review, criticism, refinement, etc (just like we do on any engineering project), and then publish and publicize the results of this work widely. Let's use our combined minds, and voices, to once and for all put some detailed and implementable ideas out into the public domain, and shine a light on them for all to see. Then, when "the experts" come up with their self-serving plan, we can start a process of compare and contrast, pointing out in extreme clarity, in words understandable to both layman and domain expert[2], exactly where they have hidden their backdoors."

Granted this is no small task, but is it impossible? And if we don't do it, what are the consequences of that choice (because doing nothing is a choice).

[1] By serious, I mean: no restrictions on access to information (and therefore no restrictions on who can get involved in an analysis - "many eyes"), no restrictions on speech, no single entity (corporations, lobbyists, mainstream media) dictating the narrative to citizens). The post 2008 analysis is not what I would call serious. A more appropriate word for that would be "theater", not unlike many other rituals our society engages in.

[2] Ideally, the information would be presented in various levels of detail, catered to different demographics, not that dissimilar to those who do contribute documentation to open source projects.

Re: “Today I cut my pay to $0. I'm committed to laying off 0 of our employees.”

#130
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Business owner here. First, let me dispel the myth that business owners are wealthy. All of my friends from school have more liquid assets than I do. I am utterly broke unless you count for the paper wealth of my company shares. When COVID hit, within a week we had customers dropping out of our sales funnel. Half of our expected revenue growth disappeared as customers decided to reduce risk and stick with existing so…

If a 50% drop in expected revenue _growth_ causes you to default on your debt you are either a startup that had trouble raising money, in which case now you know that you do not have a viable business plan, or you are running a completely unsustainable business that only existed because of easy access to cheap debt the past couple of years.

Not true at all
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