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Julia 1.4

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Re: Julia 1.4

#121

Post by pjmlp »

dklend122 wrote: post #99
eigenspace wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Who is going to make the scientific ecosystem? Julia and Python's scientific ecosystems are so strong precicesly because they get domain experts in those ecosystems to write the software they need for their niche. Machine learning programmers aren't about remake DifferentialEquations.jl or scipy in Swift. I've yet to meet a single scientist from a field outside of machine learning who was seriously excited for swift.…

> Who is going to make the scientific ecosystem? Google and apple. Apple already is working on a swift-numerics package. Look at TF python and jax. They've re-implemented chunks of scipy and numpy twice, hired people to work on plotting (altair) etc And that's with python. Their engineering time will go much further with swift, obviously.

Apple doesn't care for anything that doesn't work on their OS.

Unless they show to be as committed Microsoft is with .NET Core, Swift will have the same support as Objective-C has had since NeXT days.

As for Google, I still don't believe that they are that committed as well, Chris Lattner left, and SF4T appears more on Reddit and HN comments than on any kind of Tensorflow official communication channels.

If it wasn't for the valiant effort of one single developer not employed from either of them, Swift for Windows wouldn't even exist.

This is how committed both companies are.

Re: Julia 1.4

#122

Post by woodson »

ced wrote: post #18
komuher wrote: post #9

Something about Julia from me. I was big Julia fan using it for last 1.5 year and in my company we are using Julia for data preprocessing and parsing hundred of GB's of data. (We also use Python for ML and start to moving julia code to Nim for data prepro) If u consider Julia as ur next language dont use it to any medium to big project outside pure scientific purposes it just isnt ready yet. We have about 3.5k loc in…

We're using it in a soft-realtime setting to monitor industrial chlorine production, and for us it has been a very pleasant experience overall. Yes, we've had some issues, but similar to other ecosystem IMO, and our support contract with Julia computing helped us in the one case we really couldn't solve ourselves. Julia works really well for power users. There are no huge libraries full of C code like pandas or scipy…

> There are no huge libraries full of C code like pandas or scipy.

Isn't Julia's LinearAlgebra a wrapper around BLAS/LAPACK implementations (OpenBLAS/MKL etc.)?

Re: Julia 1.4

#123

Post by dklend122 »

pjmlp wrote: post #121
dklend122 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Who is going to make the scientific ecosystem? Google and apple. Apple already is working on a swift-numerics package. Look at TF python and jax. They've re-implemented chunks of scipy and numpy twice, hired people to work on plotting (altair) etc And that's with python. Their engineering time will go much further with swift, obviously.

Apple doesn't care for anything that doesn't work on their OS. Unless they show to be as committed Microsoft is with .NET Core, Swift will have the same support as Objective-C has had since NeXT days. As for Google, I still don't believe that they are that committed as well, Chris Lattner left, and SF4T appears more on Reddit and HN comments than on any kind of Tensorflow official communication channels. If it wasn't…

Google hired that developer.

"As for Google, I still don't believe that they are that committed as well, "

They have any approximately 10+ person team, many of whom are new hires from apple etc. Even for Google that's a decent chunk of change.

Re: Julia 1.4

#124

Post by kgwgk »

KenoFischer wrote: post #98
kgwgk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 0.7 to 1.0 was a planned move that was communicated for over a year. That sounds as if the communication was of the “1.0 will be released at this date one year in the future” kind. But it was more like saying for a year “it will be finished and released someday” and then, according to the wikipedia, “the release candidate for Julia 1.0 was released on 7 August 2018, and the final version a day later”.

Releasing at JuliaCon was always the communicated goal, though admittedly with a bit of a hedge that we may not manage to get it done. As for the 1.0RC business, 0.7 and 1.0 are the same release except that 0.7 includes additional depreciation earnings that are not in 1.0. This decision was made to keep with our communicated policy of having at least one versions where deprecations would produce a warning. There were…

> There were a number of 0.7 release candidates in the months leading up to the release.

Really?

v0.7.0-rc1 - Jul 31, 2018

v0.7.0-rc2 - Aug 2, 2018

v0.7.0-rc3 - Aug 7, 2018

v1.0.0-rc1 - Aug 7, 2018

v0.7.0 - Aug 8, 2018

v1.0.0 - Aug 9, 2018

https://github.com/JuliaLang/julia/releases

Re: Julia 1.4

#125

Post by disgruntledphd2 »

KenoFischer wrote: post #98
kgwgk wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The 0.7 to 1.0 was a planned move that was communicated for over a year. That sounds as if the communication was of the “1.0 will be released at this date one year in the future” kind. But it was more like saying for a year “it will be finished and released someday” and then, according to the wikipedia, “the release candidate for Julia 1.0 was released on 7 August 2018, and the final version a day later”.

Releasing at JuliaCon was always the communicated goal, though admittedly with a bit of a hedge that we may not manage to get it done. As for the 1.0RC business, 0.7 and 1.0 are the same release except that 0.7 includes additional depreciation earnings that are not in 1.0. This decision was made to keep with our communicated policy of having at least one versions where deprecations would produce a warning. There were…

So, for me at least, the issue was that I downloaded 1.0 (having played with Julia in the past).

When I tried to install packages, I got errors after error as a result of deprecation warnings from 0.7 becoming errors at 1.0.

Again, I really like Julia, and want it to succeed. But the 1.0 situation put me massively off, and killed my plans to start evangelising Julia at my company.

It's just a shame, that's all.

Re: Julia 1.4

#126

Post by pjmlp »

dklend122 wrote: post #123
pjmlp wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple doesn't care for anything that doesn't work on their OS. Unless they show to be as committed Microsoft is with .NET Core, Swift will have the same support as Objective-C has had since NeXT days. As for Google, I still don't believe that they are that committed as well, Chris Lattner left, and SF4T appears more on Reddit and HN comments than on any kind of Tensorflow official communication channels. If it wasn't…

Google hired that developer. "As for Google, I still don't believe that they are that committed as well, " They have any approximately 10+ person team, many of whom are new hires from apple etc. Even for Google that's a decent chunk of change.

Yes, they hired him, at the end of the race, after he has done everything on his own without any kind of Google support.

On my book being committed, is paying for the race at the start.

When TF4S delivers even the half of what ML.NET or Julia allows for on Windows including IDE, libraries and tooling support, today, and they actually start doing a bit more information then what gets given to Python, C++ and JavaScript then they are actually committed.

Re: Julia 1.4

#127

Post by dnautics »

oxinabox wrote: post #115
dnautics wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> every sensibly done julia application. Can you point me to some documentation on those best practices. My girlfriend - architectural acoustics consultant - is working on a project in Julia and is having a hell of a time managing dependency shift underneath her program (also she barely knows how to use git).

Sadly I can not point you to a single piece of documentation that covers everything. That's definitely an area Julia can improve. Writing down the things "everyone" does, so newcomers don't have to learn them again. The Pkg manual doesn't have a tutorial on standard practice. But it's worth reading the compat section and making sure to always set your compats https://julialang.github.io/Pkg.jl/v1/compatibility/ And t…

It's got anaconda-like project spaces? While I can see why they did that because it's what people are used to... That's a terrible, terrible choice (I joke there's a reason why docker got invented and it's that conda is awful). Why not just put deps in the project directory instead of in ./julia/..

Re: Julia 1.4

#128

Post by DreamScatter »

signaru wrote: post #7

I wish it had more dedicated IDE besides the atom/electron based ones (like GNU Octave has its own). I think Julia's performance deserves an equally performant IDE.

Vim works perfectly fine as a professional IDE with the Julia language for me.

Re: Julia 1.4

#129

Post by newen »

eigenspace wrote: post #120
dklend122 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not JUST google and apple, I'm sure they have enough cash and expertise and will to create enough momentum to attract more domain experts in other areas. Especially once google brain and deepmind start working on things more complex than stacking layers, which is happening now. In particular, do you have another example aside from DifferentialEquations.jl ? Neural ODEs are hot enough that something like that cou…

> It's not JUST google and apple, I'm sure they have enough cash and expertise and will to create enough momentum to attract more domain experts in other areas. Maybe, but I'm doubtful. Scientific domain experts flock to languages like Python, Julia, Matlab, R, etc. because they're interactive and allow them to quickly iterate on ideas, query data, produce plots, etc. Swift is not much of an interactive language and…

JuMP (https://github.com/JuliaOpt/JuMP.jl) for optimization is really nice and I don't think there is an equivalent this good in another language.

Re: Julia 1.4

#130

Post by eigenspace »

newen wrote: post #129
eigenspace wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not JUST google and apple, I'm sure they have enough cash and expertise and will to create enough momentum to attract more domain experts in other areas. Maybe, but I'm doubtful. Scientific domain experts flock to languages like Python, Julia, Matlab, R, etc. because they're interactive and allow them to quickly iterate on ideas, query data, produce plots, etc. Swift is not much of an interactive language and…

JuMP ( https://github.com/JuliaOpt/JuMP.jl ) for optimization is really nice and I don't think there is an equivalent this good in another language.

Absolutely, that's a nice point.
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