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Things you can do with a browser in 2020

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Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#121

Post by asjw »

detaro wrote: post #114
asjw wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If they were OSes they would have a kernel and user land You would have ring0 and ring3 You could decide what to install or what remove In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default More than an OS is a disaster waiting to happen

> In the browser everything is exposed to everyone by default Several critical or potential annoying functions have opt-in prompts by default, unlike your typical desktop OS.

It makes no difference whatsoever

An OS doesn't protect you from outside, it protects the system from apps and users

Imagine if your OS asked you if you would like to allocate a block of memory at address X everytime it does

That's what to a regular user the prompt means

They just click 'Yes Forever' and are done with it

But that's still an application settings, it has nothing to do with being an OS, browsers are mostly a system for distributing malware in the easiest of ways

At the cost of being as complex as a full OS, without any of the benefits

Wanna bet that if vendors started distributing naked browsers and the extra functionality (of course approved by W3C as standards) were bundled in plugins, which is entirely possible, half of those would linger there with zero downloads?

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#122

Post by millstone »

TheCoelacanth wrote: post #84
ironmagma wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But people still download and run apps every day. Some even prefer it. I doubt that the cause of this migration was due to security concerns -- since when are app developers particularly concerned about the quality of the security controls imposed on them? I suspect the shift was more due to ease of access, both by the user and for the developer, helped along by easier compatibility.

App developers care about the barrier to getting users to use their app. The barrier to getting a user to click on a weblink is much, much lower than the barrier to getting them to install an app.

This is one of the largest failings of the App Store providers. They should recognize this installation barrier and work towards fast and ephemeral app installs.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#123

Post by progval »

duxup wrote: post #57
Arcsech wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like we shouldn't have tortured a document transfer system until it was able to run full-on applications.

The browser is such a great place as far as running an application goes almost universally. I remember when applications had to be tied to the OS, does it run on unix, linux, some other OS, or hardware... what a pain. If it is a web app it probabbly works most places.

> I remember when applications had to be tied to the OS, does it run on unix, linux, some other OS, or hardware... what a pain.

And now many are tied to one or two browsers.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#124

Post by jsjddbbwj »

gowld wrote: post #111
untog wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

What's wrong with native app? You can delete it when you are done with it, just like you can close a browser tab when you are done with the "entire" web app you downloaded.

Native apps can siphon out much more info off your mobile than websites can.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#125

Post by dijit »

nine_k wrote: post #105
dijit wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm only speaking as a user. As a user I don't want push notifications from websites. I know there are some exceptions (like messengers), but really, those should be apps because Apples centralised push messaging system is better for my battery life.

If you don't need that, you can cmd-comma and disable that. But there's no such an easy way to enable a feature you need, but which wasn't implemented.

I do not want an opt out, I do not want it.

I _do_ _not_ want it.

I do not want it to be expected.

I do not want it to be assumed.

I do not want to have to configure anything.

_I DO NOT WANT IT_

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#126

Post by hombre_fatal »

gowld wrote: post #111
untog wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

What's wrong with native app? You can delete it when you are done with it, just like you can close a browser tab when you are done with the "entire" web app you downloaded.

No uBlock, no dev console, no network tab. Completely opaque. An install step just to order a pizza. Shareable URLs/deeplinks.

It's a freak of luck that we have the web, an app environment with a built-in dev console and actual customization. Just think how much it contrasts with the black box of native apps and with what large companies actually want. I'm in no rush to throw it away.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#127

Post by progval »

throwaway_pdp09 wrote: post #82
duxup wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The browser is such a great place as far as running an application goes almost universally. I remember when applications had to be tied to the OS, does it run on unix, linux, some other OS, or hardware... what a pain. If it is a web app it probabbly works most places.

ISWYM but I'd be much, much happier if the browser functionality of mainly delivering text and images was kept separate from the application functionality of ... doing bloody everything. I want to turn off the application side of things for my safety (and I do), but too many sites require it unnecessarily to do the most basic tasks of displaying static text and pictures.

I kind of wish major browsers would show a banner asking to enable JS, like they did for Flash and Java. This would discourage developers from using JS unless they really need it, and they'll think about graceful degradation.

But browsers won't, because they have nothing to gain from it; and it would be way too confusing for many users.

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#128

Post by asjw »

modeless wrote: post #54
Arcsech wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's almost like we shouldn't have tortured a document transfer system until it was able to run full-on applications.

If operating systems had ever provided security strong enough to run untrusted code, we wouldn't have needed to. It's really a failing of operating system security. Even today no operating system provides an application sandbox as strong and versatile as the browser. Platforms have fallen back on walled gardens (app stores) with centralized control of all code execution to compensate for the deficiencies of their sec…

Is letting Google, Facebook or Apple control every aspect of our lives by sending them all our personal data, contacts and network information voluntary more secure?

I would rather run every application in its own VM under a different unprivileged user

P.s. the browser is the main attack vector on mobile, not only because it's so complex that bugs are everywhere, but mostly because web app security sucks

Re: Things you can do with a browser in 2020

#129

Post by [deleted] »

untog wrote: post #79
rkagerer wrote: post #28

As a user, so many of these I wish did NOT exist. E.g: Push Notifications, Banners, Web Share, Contacts, Page Visibility, Badging. Uncertain about USB, Bluetooth, Locks, Keyboard Lock, and Native File System. I don't want my browser doing those things.

Then you're out of step with what users want these days. Nothing wrong with that! But to take an example, when I hit a share button on a page I want to see the native share box, not some hideous iframed monstrosity that only works with Facebook. So I want Web Share. And I don't want to download an entire native app just so that I can receive a push alert when my food order is on the way, a web site works much better…

[deleted]
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