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Time to Ban Wet Markets

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Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#121

Post by tal8d »

_jal wrote: post #34
heldupathome wrote: post #13

I think it’s a disgrace that the Chinese government hasn’t apologized for 1.) keeping wet market open 2.) silencing whistleblower doctor that would have stopped a pandemic 3.) letting 5 million people leave Wuhan 4.) pressuring WHO to not recommend border shutdown against China - Conjecture 5.) silencing whistleblowers inside China and around the world 6.) at one point, was surfacing propagandas that the virus didn’t…

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

It was happening long before the WH uttered a word, so if you really want to blame Trump for Chinese propaganda - you are going to have to argue for the concept of preemptive retaliation.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#123

Post by philwelch »

darawk wrote: post #6

It's important not to demonize Chinese people here. However, it's at the very least equally important to ensure that their agricultural practices stop producing these pandemic viruses. This is not the first one. Not even close. This is not one of those things that could have happened anywhere and the Chinese were simply unlucky. This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices and it is extremely importan…

No culture has a monopoly on this type of behavior. For instance, it's widely believed that HIV was introduced to the human population by African populations eating monkeys and apes. It's well past time that we recognize that eating unsanitary, exotic meats is a threat to the entire human population. For as bad as the ensuing epidemics have become, the relative difficulty of transmitting HIV and the relative survivability of SARS-CoV-2 are enormous strokes of luck; we won't always be this lucky.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#124

Post by grugagag »

_jal wrote: post #34
heldupathome wrote: post #13

I think it’s a disgrace that the Chinese government hasn’t apologized for 1.) keeping wet market open 2.) silencing whistleblower doctor that would have stopped a pandemic 3.) letting 5 million people leave Wuhan 4.) pressuring WHO to not recommend border shutdown against China - Conjecture 5.) silencing whistleblowers inside China and around the world 6.) at one point, was surfacing propagandas that the virus didn’t…

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

> (6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus'

How is that a direct response by blaming it on a third country?? And aside from racism, the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets, China should own it at least, not asking financial damages for the world economy and lives lost. Fuck Trump, this has nothing to do with his rhetoric, these are facts. The chinese government supressed info about this virus.

However, the US government is responsable for doing nothing for more than a month!!!

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#125

Post by thundergolfer »

dluan wrote: post #56

I'm terrified that this outbreak is giving us a taste of the ecofascism that we're in for with the climate crisis, because now authors like this one can just outright say the quiet part loud.

Which particular bit is fascist? I agree that ecofascism could very well be on the horizon, but reading this article I missed any quiet racism/fascism said loudly.

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#127

Post by IndrekR »

derefr wrote: post #15

So, what’s the difference between a “wet market” and the sort of familiar farmer’s market of butchers/fishmongers/etc. that five-star restaurants source from all over the world? This article seems to be doing a motte-and-bailey of grossing you out with things that are just “regular meat wholesaler things” (e.g. fresh meat sitting out on ice without refrigeration) and then moralizing about the specific kinds of meats…

> This sort of reminds me of the parable of the new owner who came into a bakery and demanded it be cleaned because everything was greasy.

You are probably refering to Making Wrong Code Look Wrong by Joel Spolsky: https://www.joelonsoftware.com/2005/05/11/making-wrong-code-...

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#128

Post by arcticbull »

grugagag wrote: post #124
_jal wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

(6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus', 'Kung Flu' and other racist/shitty deflection garbage. I'm not defending it, but it isn't happening in a vacuum.

> (6) is a direct response to the White House's continued use of 'Wuhan virus' How is that a direct response by blaming it on a third country?? And aside from racism, the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets, China should own it at least, not asking financial damages for the world economy and lives lost. Fuck Trump, this has nothing to do with his rhetoric, these are facts. The ch…

> ... the virus originated in Wuhan China and that is due to unsanitary wet markets.

There are innumerable wet markets in Asia, this is not only totally unwarranted but largely xenophobic. Would you call the leafy green supply chain in the US "unsanitary" since we recall them in the US a few times a year? The last time we recalled spinach over salmonella was just 6 months ago [1] E. Coli was just 3 months ago [2].

To quote the WHO: "Primary sources of [E. Coli] outbreaks are raw or undercooked ground meat products, raw milk, and faecal contamination of vegetables" [3] so someone's been pooping in America's mixed greens.

They may be a bit gruesome if you're unaccustomed but they serve so many people it's hard to believe they're overwhelmingly unsanitary.

> The chinese government supressed info about this virus.

This on the other hand is a good point.

[1] https://www.cnn.com/2019/08/13/health/dole-spinach-recall-sa...

[2] https://www.cdc.gov/ecoli/2019/o157h7-11-19/index.html

[3] https://www.who.int/news-room/fact-sheets/detail/e-coli

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#129

Post by kleer001 »

derefr wrote: post #82
TazeTSchnitzel wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So, what’s the difference between a “wet market” and the sort of familiar farmer’s market 1) The wet market is full of live animals in close proximity and very unsanitary conditions. So pathogens are more likely to still be alive, and can jump between diverse hosts, not just to humans. 2) The wet market is full of non-domesticated , exotic animals which carry pathogens humans are not acquainted to.

Re 1: you’re probably picturing your local butcher shop. Don’t. Picture a pier in a coastal town. The lobsters? Alive. The oysters? Alive. In close proximity? Certainly. Sitting right beside a bunch of gutted fish and processed chum? Yup. That’s a wet market. You can’t name one thing going on in Wuhan that doesn’t happen on such a pier. Even the general approach of “whatever we catch, we sell” is the same. And yet, n…

> That’s a wet market.

No it's not.

You're off by two orders of magnitude of number of different and wild species. That's THE key. The variation and combinations of vicera and species.

"...live wolf pups, golden cicadas, scorpions, bamboo rats, squirrels, foxes, civets, hedgehogs (probably porcupines), salamanders, turtles and crocodiles. In addition, it offered assorted parts of some animals, such as crocodile tail, belly, tongue and intestines...."

from

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2020/jan/24/calls-for-gl...

Re: Time to Ban Wet Markets

#130

Post by darawk »

philwelch wrote: post #123
darawk wrote: post #6

It's important not to demonize Chinese people here. However, it's at the very least equally important to ensure that their agricultural practices stop producing these pandemic viruses. This is not the first one. Not even close. This is not one of those things that could have happened anywhere and the Chinese were simply unlucky. This is a direct consequence of their agricultural practices and it is extremely importan…

No culture has a monopoly on this type of behavior. For instance, it's widely believed that HIV was introduced to the human population by African populations eating monkeys and apes. It's well past time that we recognize that eating unsanitary, exotic meats is a threat to the entire human population. For as bad as the ensuing epidemics have become, the relative difficulty of transmitting HIV and the relative survivab…

Totally agree. There's places everyone can improve upon with regard to things like this, but wet markets are an obvious starting place, I think.
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