Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#121

Post by ac29 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 1:35 AM UTC

unlinked_dll wrote: post #114

nostrebored wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why are you mad about buildings being used at over 85% occupancy on average?

Short term rentals to tourists isn't occupancy, it's occupation. Sorry for the hyperbole I just thought that was good wordplay. These rentals drive up rents for the people in the community and remove housing stock from the market, making it more expensive and less likely for people to purchase their home and build equity. Rent is non recoverable unlike a mortgage, even if you ultimately take a loss. Flooding the hous…

Shouldn't the increased tourism be a net win for the local economy though?

I agree its unfortunate if airbnb units increase rents, even a small amount. Finding good data isn't all that easy, but this study [0] from last year suggests airbnb was responsible for about 20% of total rent increase amounts in the areas studied. But, ignoring other potentially beneficial effects is one sided - if tourism was always bad, people should also be against building or operating hotels that could be apartments instead.

[0] https://phys.org/news/2019-08-airbnb-affect-rents-housing-pr...

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#122

Post by amiga_500 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 1:43 AM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #121

unlinked_dll wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term rentals to tourists isn't occupancy, it's occupation. Sorry for the hyperbole I just thought that was good wordplay. These rentals drive up rents for the people in the community and remove housing stock from the market, making it more expensive and less likely for people to purchase their home and build equity. Rent is non recoverable unlike a mortgage, even if you ultimately take a loss. Flooding the hous…

Shouldn't the increased tourism be a net win for the local economy though? I agree its unfortunate if airbnb units increase rents, even a small amount. Finding good data isn't all that easy, but this study [0] from last year suggests airbnb was responsible for about 20% of total rent increase amounts in the areas studied. But, ignoring other potentially beneficial effects is one sided - if tourism was always bad, peo…

Here is a report into the negative effects of airbnb.

https://upgo.lab.mcgill.ca/publication/short-term-cities/sho...

Here is the small pox rash over Montreal:

http://insideairbnb.com/montreal/?neighbourhood=C%C3%B4te-de...

Repeated ad-infinitum across the globe by a company that figured out:

1. how to put pictures on web sites

2. regulatory arbitrage of residential housing

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#123

Post by jdpigeon » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 2:34 AM UTC

notyourday wrote: post #48

Brendinooo wrote: post #4

I'd imagine there's a sizable group of people who think Airbnb is only worth it if the price (and maybe location) is significantly better than a hotel, and that seems to be less true as the company matures.

There's also a significant group of people who thinks AirBnb works very well at the 2x-4x hotel price for a much nicer space. Hotels simply don't have enough of those rooms or if those rooms do exist they are considered to be suites that are billed at ridiculous daily rate. Edit - Examples pulled from the notes from 2019: Paris - AirBNB $650 a night, 3rd story walk-up ~1900 sq feet apartment with a balcony. Hotel pri…

This is how I see Airbnb in 2020. Big cities have cracked down on people renting out their places and all the idealist hosts have left. Hotels are getting cheaper to compete. The one thing that Airbnb still seems to be great at is ultra-trendy "experience" homes like solar-powered biodomes in the desert or cross-laminated timber cabins in the mountains.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#124

Post by subpixel » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 2:47 AM UTC

ac29 wrote: post #121

unlinked_dll wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Short term rentals to tourists isn't occupancy, it's occupation. Sorry for the hyperbole I just thought that was good wordplay. These rentals drive up rents for the people in the community and remove housing stock from the market, making it more expensive and less likely for people to purchase their home and build equity. Rent is non recoverable unlike a mortgage, even if you ultimately take a loss. Flooding the hous…

Shouldn't the increased tourism be a net win for the local economy though? I agree its unfortunate if airbnb units increase rents, even a small amount. Finding good data isn't all that easy, but this study [0] from last year suggests airbnb was responsible for about 20% of total rent increase amounts in the areas studied. But, ignoring other potentially beneficial effects is one sided - if tourism was always bad, peo…

There is no example of a place where the net impact of tourism is positive. Not in the era in which we live, certainly.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#125

Post by AnthonyMouse » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 2:51 AM UTC

SquishyPanda23 wrote: post #82

alexandec wrote: post #33

I've had bad experiences with multiple Airbnbs including: - showing up at night with the key not in the agreed location, and not being able to contact the owner until the next day - showing up and someone else was already in the unit - a webcam was plugged in and placed on the bedside table with no warning - conditions in the unit were significantly worse than those shown in the photos All these listings had great re…

This is, of course, the whole point of consumer protection. The trend of all these "regulation arbitrage" startups seems to be to show consumers why the regulation existed in the first place.

The problem really seems to be in the nature of the platform. What a market needs to address issues like this is accurate reviews (i.e. informed consumers), but here we have a platform which both maintains the reviewing system and profits when listings are filled -- a clear conflict of interest.

This really stems from the regulations on payment processors. In theory there should be the digital equivalent of cash, where the buyer can easily and directly pay the seller without any third party middle man in between them imposing conditions and taking a cut.

But since regulatory requirements make processing payments, to use the technical term, a giant pain in the butt, it takes a sizeable bureaucracy to do it. Then you get a perverse incentive to have the company that handles listings and reviews also do the payment processing -- and get a cut of every transaction -- which is what creates this conflict of interest. The company whose business is reviews should not be turning a profit from filling listings, or they won't want bad reviews even when they're deserved, and then you don't have accurate reviews.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#126

Post by jnwatson » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 3:06 AM UTC

tomp wrote: post #52

danielovichdk wrote: post #10

My experience with AirBnb has been good but often I feel I miss something. If possible I always almost choose a hotel, because it seems cleaner, service oriented, often has breakfast and a place to have a drink or a coffee. There are places that is more suitable for renting a private place, but in where there are tourists there are often better offers at hotels.

The best advantage of a hotel, from my point of view, is that you know they won't cancel on you last minute.

I’ve had several hotels cancel on me when they overbooked.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#127

Post by protomyth » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 3:09 AM UTC

yroc92 wrote: post #102

amiga_500 wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> He's bleeding money now Maybe he should work instead of leeching off his community.

Why so hostile? The community is not who is using this guy’s Airbnb units.

He is also running a hotel with outsourced bookings and not following any of the required consumer safety laws a hotel has to follow.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#128

Post by brandonmenc » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 3:10 AM UTC

nostrebored wrote: post #111

amiga_500 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Paying off two dwellings at little effort is a nice "side hustle". No wonder nobody in the west is working! Meanwhile the Fed pumps more money to protect banks from rentiers blowing up, while taxes go unpaid and hospitals are underfunded.

Why are you mad about buildings being used at over 85% occupancy on average?

Because they are breaking the law by violating zoning codes which we put there for a reason.

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#129

Post by amiga_500 » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 3:16 AM UTC

protomyth wrote: post #127

yroc92 wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so hostile? The community is not who is using this guy’s Airbnb units.

He is also running a hotel with outsourced bookings and not following any of the required consumer safety laws a hotel has to follow.

But its mom and pop! Mom! Pop!

Re: Airbnb’s loss nearly doubles in fourth quarter, before virus

#130

Post by thedance » Fri, Mar 13, 2020, 3:17 AM UTC

Kluny wrote: post #89

tw04 wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

VRBO worked just fine before Airbnb was a thing.

I've never heard of it before this thread, so I guess they had a marketing problem. But I will definitely check it out next time I have reason to.

VRBO was Airbnb years before Airbnb decided to take their business model and add white-collar crime on top. Just like computer-dispatched car services existed for decades prior to Uber.