“Just walk out” technology by Amazon • Hacker News Board

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#121

Post by vsskanth » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

mpettitt wrote: post #112

vsskanth wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yeah exactly. I guess I don't understand the marginal improvement in adding so many cameras and advanced processing, all so that you can "just walk out", with the possibility of having to deal with billing related customer service issues.

I wonder if it would be possible to integrate payment into the mobile apps they've already got in place, thereby meaning that the only time you'd need to go to the checkout at all would be if you were buying restricted goods (e.g. age limited, or items with security tags) - the risks would seem then to be tracking whether someone had paid. Maybe have a QR code shown on screen which security staff can scan if they're…

I see a version of the QR code check already in Sams Club. A person at the exit scans your bill and it tells them what to check for. Otherwise they will randomly scan an item and it will cross-check with the bill.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#122

Post by mpettitt » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:21 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #46

In France all our Decathlon (generic sport gear) stores already have RFID chips and checking out (at a free outlet to self checkout or at a cashier who'll basically do the same thing as you) consist of only putting the goods in a basket, the recognition / scanning of the RFID chip is very good and fast. If you walk out with goods you didn't buy the guard will have a notification on his smartphone with the list of unp…

UK ones have baskets you put stuff in, but they appear to be using multiple barcode scanners, at least for low value items. I'm guessing there is a cost-benefit trade-off at some point, as well as a potential functional impact problem (hard to put an RFID tag in a solid lump of plastic!). The combination seems to work well though, and is certainly faster than most supermarkets.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#123

Post by JCharante » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

vsskanth wrote: post #17

In terms of cost-convenience trade-off, can someone tell me how is this better for a store when compared to self-checkout counters or scan-as-you-go apps (as suggested below) ? I use these frequently at Walmart and Sams without any problems. Rarely have to deal with an actual checkout person unless I have to get a gift card. IMO you can get very far simply addressing annoying latency and UX issues with self checkout…

As a student I frequently will end up putting items in my backpack. It is way more convinient to just stuff stuff into my backpack than it is to get a cart and go through the grueling check out line that takes forever because someone has to scan every item, and a lot of people still don't use contactless payment. I hate this process so much now that I only get my groceries delivered now, but if there were a local convinience store with this technology then I would totally go there.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#124

Post by londons_explore » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

ttoinou wrote: post #46

In France all our Decathlon (generic sport gear) stores already have RFID chips and checking out (at a free outlet to self checkout or at a cashier who'll basically do the same thing as you) consist of only putting the goods in a basket, the recognition / scanning of the RFID chip is very good and fast. If you walk out with goods you didn't buy the guard will have a notification on his smartphone with the list of unp…

It's still at the ~8cents per item pricerange. Metal cans require a different kind of more expensive tag.

Thats still to much for groceries where items are typically only ~$2.50, and the staff time to scan a barcode is ~$0.01

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#125

Post by SamuelAdams » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:23 PM UTC

smoyer wrote: post #25

vessenes wrote: post #13

Seeing a few negative comments here; I think these are short-sighted in the extreme. Labor is a major cost for retail; anything that massively reduces labor costs is going to be hugely game changing. Combined with amazon promises that it takes only a few weeks to integrate (seriously??) if this works at all, this is going to be a super fast growth group at Amazon. For reference think back to how many stories you’ve r…

Another major cost in retail is "loss" ... I can see this being pretty effective at loss prevention and coupon fraud (even my small town grocery store require an associate to visit the self-check kiosks if a customer has a coupon).

Exactly, consider Apple Retail employees, who need to be searched [1] every time their shift ends due to suspected theft. Having automated cameras that can better track products could significantly alter this check.

[1]: https://www.theverge.com/2020/2/14/21137580/apple-store-reta...

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#126

Post by dazc » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

bookofjoe wrote: post #67

Analemma_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do these actually reduce labor costs though? I frequently use the Amazon Go store in Seattle right next to the Spheres, and there seem to be as many if not more employees there than at an ordinary convenience store: there's always one person by the liquor area to check IDs, one or two people walking around the store restocking the shelves and helping the clueless tourists download the app, and several people in the k…

At my neighborhood 7-11, there are often 5-10 people waiting in line with one clerk at checkout. One person buying lottery tickets brings things to a complete halt.

There is always someone buying multiple lottery tickets/scratch cards in UK local stores and, yes, it does bring everything to a standstill.

Other regular delays seem to come from staff being perplexed by the complexity of the checkout system.

Also, mostly middle aged women being taken by complete surprise they are being asked to pay for stuff which leads to much fumbling around looking for purses and wallets and then they'll insist on counting out the exact change.

Then the constant 'Do you need a bag?', 'Do you want a receipt?' 'Do you have a stupid loyalty card?' routine.

Bring on automation please and make the world a much more happier place!

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#127

Post by vsskanth » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:24 PM UTC

gok wrote: post #65

vsskanth wrote: post #17

In terms of cost-convenience trade-off, can someone tell me how is this better for a store when compared to self-checkout counters or scan-as-you-go apps (as suggested below) ? I use these frequently at Walmart and Sams without any problems. Rarely have to deal with an actual checkout person unless I have to get a gift card. IMO you can get very far simply addressing annoying latency and UX issues with self checkout…

Self checkout works ok until: 1. A customer born before 1968 or so shows up 2. The scale's state machine gets corrupted ("UNEXPECTED ITEM IN BAGGING AREA") Both of which end up needing more retail labor than a traditional checkout line.

How would this person in case 1 feel about not knowing what they're being billed for when they walk out ?

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#128

Post by grandmczeb » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

nck4222 wrote: post #63

My biggest problem with this is that from what I can tell, the only way to know how much you're going to be automatically charged (as well as what items the tech thinks you're purchasing), is to go to a kiosk in the store and get a receipt. Which seems to completely defeat the convenience of just walking out in the first place. I wouldn't feel comfortable just walking out without knowing how much I'm going to be char…

Unfortunately the current system doesn’t exactly work in real time (sometimes it can take a while for a receipt to appear in the app) but I don’t think that’s a fundamental limitation. I also don’t think this is a major concern though; so long as there’s still price tags (which there are) and it’s easy to dispute mistakes in the app I don’t think most people will really have a problem with it.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#129

Post by superkuh » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

buffin wrote: post #50

robszumski wrote: post #14

What a weird site and roll out of this announcement. The page doesn't even have a or call to action other than a buried email. Is this someone's pet project to state that our landing page captured XX,000 hits in 24 hours?

Amazon has a history for being awful with making web pages. I had to peruse the Amazon HTML code once for a research project not long ago, and their code was littered with issues, including duplicate id. Their UX and even UI is rotten beyond belief.

Really? I've been consistently amazed with Amazon's web UI. It works perfectly no matter if you have javascript on or off, no matter what browser. I bet I could order in lynx if I wanted to. Almost no other large site does it as well.

Re: “Just walk out” technology by Amazon

#130

Post by grandmczeb » Mon, Mar 09, 2020, 5:32 PM UTC

throwaway3157 wrote: post #108

thinkling wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I've used to Amazon Go store, it has usually taken a while for the app to update with a receipt. Last time I went to the new, bigger store it was about an hour before they had the receipt available.

> When I've used to Amazon Go store, My receipt was in the app shortly after (I walked about two blocks and checked). I think it took longer for an email to show up, but can't recall exactly

My experience had been that it can vary quite a bit. Most of the time it’s pretty quick, but occasionally it can be over an hour.