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The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

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Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#121

I was in a similar position once, many years ago, in the early days of the web. I had managed to get parts of the source code to a popular online game (no real hacking here, they left a tarball in an open directory I stumbled upon), and being a foolish young kid, I decided to brag about my insider knowledge of unfinished features on a website. A few weeks later, the company contacted me with a job offer... they just…

As a counter anecdote, there is a CS lecturer at my alma mater who actually did get a job directly due to taking code (a physics simulator I believe) from some company's server.

He was careful to end the story by reminding students that things have changed a bit since his youth, and what he did would be multiple felonies now.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#122
post #55
post #28

I'm impressed by the shear amount of knowledge the kid had. Especially at the age that he did it.

I also found it hard to not sympathize with him after statements like this: "My bot used the same vulnerability in the LSASS service that his did, except it didn't crash the host system, so I guess they thought I gave him the exploit code. Of course I denied this and told them that I never write such shoddy code." He doesn't come across like a criminal mind to me. Don't blame an 18yr old kid for naively crossing line…

It's possible for a criminal to have pride in his craftsmanship.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#123
post #117
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You are still not understanding what I'm trying to say. We are talking about intentions here. Not actions. I'm not saying he's not guilty of those crimes. I'm just saying he did not exhibit the undesirable character of intentionally hurting others for self gain. When he committed the crimes he might not have thought about how much Valve would suffer as a result. This is a very different mentality than breaking into s…

What i don't understand is that you keep saying he was not motivated by self gain, and that you cannot recognise the significance of actions beyond their physical consequences. Only sadists hurt people for self gain, most cases including this one people do things for their own satisfaction disregarding the damage it causes to the other party. The only way he could fail to be aware of the negative repercussions is if…

>What i don't understand is that you keep saying he was not motivated by self gain... people do things for their own satisfaction...

That's a different kind of self gain than the one I was talking about. There is no need to point out/talk about the one you mention - every action anyone does is/can be argued for self satisfaction/gain of some sort - since everyone does it already. Yes I agree with that one. However, the gain I'm talking about is taking away a physical object away from someone else for the sake of gaining possession of it. Again, this is not what motivated the kid to break in and obtain a copy of the source code. However this type of gain is exactly what motivated the guy from Roosevelt's story. My original reply was trying to point out this difference.

>...you cannot recognise the significance of actions beyond their physical consequences.

Yes I can. Not only I can, I am also making a distinction between the actions with obvious physical consequences and the actions with less/no obvious physical consequences. It is you who insist on generalizing the two into the same thing and cannot see the (somewhat subtle) difference.

>The only way he could fail to be aware of the negative repercussions is if he accidentally took the source code and thought it was something else. He clearly did know what the code was, its value and why it was protected...

I beg to differ. That is just one extreme way. It is definitely not the only way he could have failed to be aware of the negative ramification. This is where evaluating his intentions/motivations is helpful. He loves the Valve company. He wants to play this game that he's been waiting for 4 years to ship. But the game keeps on getting delayed. He wants know the progress of the game's development. So then he decides looking at the source code is a good way to achieve this. I think it's very reasonable to argue that, "Had he known that by doing what he did would only further delay the game he wants to play and cause his heroes a lot of trouble, he would not have done it." The ramifications in this case is not as nearly as straight forward compared to breaking into a factory for the sake of gaining possession of the factory's secret plans. I really hope you can see this difference.

>so i don't see how what he did was any different from someone breaking into a factory and stealing secret plans

I think I've already done the best I can to explain to you the differences. If you still cannot see it then you are just going to have to figure this one out on your own/with someone else. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_Dichotomy That might be a good place to start. I notice coders often tend to engage in this kind of over generalization/all or nothing thinking.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#124
post #118
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ahh, I see. Point taken. I would still hire this passionate kid and put him on the network security team. I would then make a public announcement about how the job you get depends on what skill you demonstrate. Which should be the way it works anyways. If you want to join us as a game developer then you need to demonstrate your game developing passion and skills. Either through creating mods with our SDK/platform or…

If any time you were hacked, you fired the previous network security engineer and hired the guy who just broke in, you'd have a network unusuable by legitimate users and still probably vulnerable to skilled attackers.

Who said anything about firing? How does hiring one guy on to join the team == firing of all of the previous guys? Is there a one man network security team rule at Valve that I'm suppose to know about?

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#125
post #124
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If any time you were hacked, you fired the previous network security engineer and hired the guy who just broke in, you'd have a network unusuable by legitimate users and still probably vulnerable to skilled attackers.

Who said anything about firing? How does hiring one guy on to join the team == firing of all of the previous guys? Is there a one man network security team rule at Valve that I'm suppose to know about?

If you hire somebody to your security team every time your network is compromised, and never fire anybody, your network security team will outnumber the rest of your company.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#126
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Things would have been exactly the same in the US. The stories that get all the publicity are the bad ones which of course leads you to think that's all there is. But by far most cases end up exactly like this one. Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. If you are honest and open with them you get a far milder punishment than someone who won't talk. I've seen it in so many case reports. Judges are trying to figure out…

> Judges LOVE honesty, and so do cops. Traffic tickets are not even in the same league as the kind of offenses that we're talking about here, but if they are any indication then I have to agree. I've gotten out of my last three traffic stops by simply telling the cop exactly what I did: driving in the HOV lane without a passenger, rolling through a stop sign, and doing 40 in a 25. These people -- law enforcement and…

Now you've ruined it.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#127
post #123
post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What i don't understand is that you keep saying he was not motivated by self gain, and that you cannot recognise the significance of actions beyond their physical consequences. Only sadists hurt people for self gain, most cases including this one people do things for their own satisfaction disregarding the damage it causes to the other party. The only way he could fail to be aware of the negative repercussions is if…

>What i don't understand is that you keep saying he was not motivated by self gain... people do things for their own satisfaction... That's a different kind of self gain than the one I was talking about. There is no need to point out/talk about the one you mention - every action anyone does is/can be argued for self satisfaction/gain of some sort - since everyone does it already. Yes I agree with that one. However, t…

Look, I'm not saying it wouldn't be worse if a rival company broke in and stole the plans to give themselves a competitive advantage, but the kid still knew it was wrong and proceeded for his own sake (not money, but bragging rights and curiousity). So his crime wasn't grossly malicious, but it was grossly irresponsible considering the damage caused.

Quite simply, he should have known better. I know what a false dichotomy is - and it's exactly what you are purveying by insisting (so far without justification) that crimes with physical effects are not comparable to those without.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cops were "cordial" after rousting him out of bed while pointing automatic weapons at him. In other words, they armed up and stormed the residence of a suspect of a non-violent crime. That sounds pretty standard for the US, and for the same reason indicated by the instruction, "Get out of bed. Do not touch the keyboard". SWAT-style tactics are rarely about any actual belief that the suspect has weapons and is lik…

On the reddit thread, the guy says that was inaccurate and they were actually "really nice" in waking him up. http://www.reddit.com/r/gaming/comments/fpkav/the_boy_who_st...

Hmm! I wonder what that's about. Thanks for the information.

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please. Do we need any more anti-US rhetoric here? I see no reason to believe that he would have been treated differently by the FBI, and besides, he would probably have been extradited right back to Germany.

You don't appear to be aware of what's going on in the US right now. I would also suggest reading what pg has to say about identity (and keeping it small).

link?

Re: The Boy Who Stole Half-Life 2

#130
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't appear to be aware of what's going on in the US right now. I would also suggest reading what pg has to say about identity (and keeping it small).

link?

http://www.paulgraham.com/identity.html

About considering you part of something:

"..There is a step beyond thinking of yourself as x but tolerating y: not even to consider yourself an x. The more labels you have for yourself, the dumber they make you."

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