Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me • Hacker News Board

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#121

Post by Vinnl » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:04 PM UTC

brongondwana wrote: post #75

Vinnl wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but about my filters? On other tiny stuff that gmail builds on email All that is data, so those, too, could be stored in your Pod and brought along with you. > Should I ask solid to update protocol for this No, interoperability can be achieved through your data model, which is yours to decide - Solid doesn't dictate the shape of your data. But as you noted, only competing apps using the same data model will be inte…

Speaking of email in particular, I'd be keen to chat to you lot about the JMAP protocol, which is hoping to provide some of the "modern data model" around email (and we're now working on Calendars)

The best thing there would probably be to reach out to the Solid community in general, through either the forums [0] or the chat [1].

[0] https://forum.solidproject.org

[1] https://gitter.im/solid/chat

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#122

Post by unlinked_dll » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:05 PM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #114

My problem with all those pro-privacy apps is that privacy has a price[0], and a price most consumers (me included) are not willing to pay. There are, essentially, two business models on the web. One is to provide the services for free and sell ads, the other is to charge for the services directly. To earn substantial amounts on ads, you need to track consumers massively. As a consumer, I definitely prefer being trac…

As a consumer we don't get that choice. Most of the products we want are not available for purchase, and often when they are they still track us and use our data against us.

The notion that there are two business models on the web is a myth, at least for consumers. Only in B2B services do you ever see things available for sale or a fee without data collection and tracking attached.

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#123

Post by Vinnl » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:11 PM UTC

fuubi wrote: post #45

I am very excited about Solid. That motivated me to write my thesis about a decentralised wiki, where Solid is its foundation. For further information, you can have a look at my work journal ( https://ma.parrillo.eu ).

Hey, great that you're interested in Solid! It might be me not having paid attention, but I think I haven't come across this earlier. It might be interesting to share this on the forum as well, to get the community's input: https://forum.solidproject.org

(Apologies if you already posted there.)

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#124

Post by Vinnl » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:14 PM UTC

scribu wrote: post #85

> If you want your insurance company to have access to your fitness data, you grant it through your pod. Why would the insurance company trust that data? Since you're in control of the pod, you could alter it, no?

There's some work going on related to that in the community - if you're interested, the search term to use is "Verifiable Credentials". I'm not that up-to-speed about it, unfortunately, but it's about solving that potential problem.

(Disclosure: I also work for Inrupt, but views are my own.)

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#125

Post by d--b » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:19 PM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #114

My problem with all those pro-privacy apps is that privacy has a price[0], and a price most consumers (me included) are not willing to pay. There are, essentially, two business models on the web. One is to provide the services for free and sell ads, the other is to charge for the services directly. To earn substantial amounts on ads, you need to track consumers massively. As a consumer, I definitely prefer being trac…

If the price was charged by the isp, you wouldn’t feel it at all...

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#126

Post by Jasper_ » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:20 PM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #114

My problem with all those pro-privacy apps is that privacy has a price[0], and a price most consumers (me included) are not willing to pay. There are, essentially, two business models on the web. One is to provide the services for free and sell ads, the other is to charge for the services directly. To earn substantial amounts on ads, you need to track consumers massively. As a consumer, I definitely prefer being trac…

Radio, TV and magazine ads were minimally tracked and worked for years. The only people telling us we need tracked ads to make money are people selling tracked ads.

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#127

Post by eitland » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:22 PM UTC

miki123211 wrote: post #114

My problem with all those pro-privacy apps is that privacy has a price[0], and a price most consumers (me included) are not willing to pay. There are, essentially, two business models on the web. One is to provide the services for free and sell ads, the other is to charge for the services directly. To earn substantial amounts on ads, you need to track consumers massively. As a consumer, I definitely prefer being trac…

> My problem with all those pro-privacy apps is that privacy has a price[0], and a price most consumers (me included) are not willing to pay.

For anyone who wasn't aware:

WhatsApp was killing it even as they were shouting from the front of their app and their web page that they were a paid product.

And they hadn't even started monetizing API access etc.

Edit: just looked at this and it checks a number of boxes:

- no blockchain (as far as I can see)

- no coin (again AFAICS)

- smart people

- a real problem that has been bothering me

I guess I might be happy to stand in line to pay for the product when this materializes just as I was happy when I finally could pay for WhatsApp (I was an early adopter and got it for free the first few months and paid later).

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#128

Post by drummer » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:27 PM UTC

> Your data is no longer in a bazillion places on the Internet, controlled by you-have-no-idea-who. It's yours. If you want your insurance company to have access to your fitness data, you grant it through your pod.

Nothing stops a third party to record the data once you gave access and sell it. Even after you remove access they can keep their copy. So what use is this pod thing?

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#129

Post by jonbronson » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:31 PM UTC

drummer wrote: post #128

> Your data is no longer in a bazillion places on the Internet, controlled by you-have-no-idea-who. It's yours. If you want your insurance company to have access to your fitness data, you grant it through your pod. Nothing stops a third party to record the data once you gave access and sell it. Even after you remove access they can keep their copy. So what use is this pod thing?

It's step one. Step two is to utilize applicatonis/companies that have your privacy in mind. The fact that you own/control the data empowers you to choose rather become stuck.

Re: Inrupt, Tim Berners-Lee's Solid, and Me

#130

Post by BlueTemplar » Sun, Feb 23, 2020, 5:35 PM UTC

kick wrote: post #7

naner wrote: post #2

Projects like this never seem to pan out. It solves a problem people should care about but most aren't motivated to act on.

It doesn't actually solve the problem, which is something you would have imagined they would have thought out from the beginning. They basically admit, outright, that their proposed solution doesn't solve the problem: The ideal would be for this to be completely distributed. Everyone's pod would be on a computer they own, running on their network. But that's not how it's likely to be in real life. Just as you can the…

Some of these issues are going to be helped by the adoption of IPv6.