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I Learned French in 12 Months

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Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#121

Post by mumblemumble »

tmountain wrote: post #108

I've been hacking language learning for about five years, and I've spent ridiculous amounts of time trying and reading about different strategies. I've been to Cuba, Mexico, Spain, and Puerto Rico to try immersion in different settings. Getting to a solid level of competency in a language actually is not that hard. It just requires dedication and consistent practice. That said, native speakers operate on a different…

My sense is that there are really two different registers you can shoot for. Past a certain level of proficiency, they're mostly divergent, if complementary, skills.

The first is whether you speak articulately about complex topics. This one is easy to do from home; reading books, listening to podcasts, and talking with language partners on iTalki will all help get you there.

The second is informal, everyday communication. This one's definitely a struggle. Not only is it hard to pick up on your own, but I'm pretty sure that, even if you've spent some time in a region that speaks the language, there's still no great way to avoid steadily losing it if you ever leave. TV, especially sitcoms, helps, but only a little. There's just not a whole lot of overlap between the things people actually chatter about all day, and the things that make for interesting entertainment.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#122

Post by throwaway41968 »

rq1 wrote: post #87
raphaelj wrote: post #9

As a French native speaker, I'm a little bit surprised by the corrected text OP posted in her/his article ( http://www.runwes.com/images/learningfrench/image1.png ). Most of the corrections she/he received are not justified at all. Like using the work "crédits" is totally fine in this context. I can't get why they corrected some connectors like "à" or "pour", as the usage of these in the text seem at least as correct…

I hope you’re kidding. The initial text isn’t good, the corrections are maybe not perfect and some are more a matter of taste but definitely better than the original wordings. “y dédier du temps” is closer to the original formulation and equally good for instance. I noticed that most of native speakers of any language are not that good actually in their mother tongue. For someone who’s learning the best disservice is…

>I noticed that most of native speakers of any language are not that good actually in their mother tongue.

That doesn't make any sense. Maybe they're not good according to the normative institutions attempting to control the language, but that doesn't have any bearing on the ability of billions of people to communicate with their peers using their mother tongue. Just because an institution says a certain form is "incorrect" doesn't mean people are going to stop using it and make themselves understood with that form.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#123

Post by [deleted] »

tmountain wrote: post #108

I've been hacking language learning for about five years, and I've spent ridiculous amounts of time trying and reading about different strategies. I've been to Cuba, Mexico, Spain, and Puerto Rico to try immersion in different settings. Getting to a solid level of competency in a language actually is not that hard. It just requires dedication and consistent practice. That said, native speakers operate on a different…

[deleted]

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#124

Post by hombre_fatal »

OldFatCactus wrote: post #45

I've been using Babbel to learn Spanish. Anyone have suggestions for where to go after maxing resources like Babbel and Duolingo? I feel like I hit a wall somewhere and the next steps aren't so clear. Some of the steps the author used look helpful like changing phone language and heavy use of anki

1) iTalki for a 1-on-1 hour with a teacher.

2) Start reading books.

3) Start listening to podcasts in Spanish that are geared towards beginners. Españolistos, Hoy Hablamos (https://www.hoyhablamos.com/), Español con Juan (https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCoHJ7PkM6T92LwgJgrnDhWA).

I think reading young adult books is one of the best bangs for the buck early on. Most people agree that they procrastinated it for too long because they thought it would be too hard, myself included.

Bonus) Play a MUD in Spanish. http://www.balzhur.org/ is the biggest one I know of with 10-25 people online. It's a 1-to-1 translation of Realms of Despair. Even if you are too bad at Spanish to interact with people, it's a fun interactive way to get used to common verbs. And you can go at your own slow pace, reading the description of each room.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#125

Post by mumblemumble »

shmat wrote: post #101

I studied French from 7th-12th grade in an American High School. After that, I could not understand any French beyond "bonjour". I could not have a conversation in French. I could conjugate verbs and I could read some. Fast forward 45 years and I retired and decided to actually learn French. I followed a very, very similar method and after 9 months of self study took a 2 week intensive course in France where I was to…

I'm convinced that a classroom is the worst possible environment for actually learning a 2nd language. There are just so many reasons why.

Probably the most insurmountable one is that the pace at which the class can move is limited by the pace at which the least motivated student is going to learn.

But I also think that it's just a structurally bad environment for efficient language learning. Since everyone needs a chance to participate, you spend the vast majority of your time listening to other people who don't know the language any better than you do, so there's just not much to learn from them. Since you're working from a textbook, everyone has to read the same uncompelling least-common denominator materials, which, by virtue of being boring, are just as likely to sap as to sustain your motivation - and an unmotivated mind isn't going to absorb much.

I'm starting to feel that way about canned programs in general. I've been working on the kanji lately. At the start, a friend of mine told me he thought I was crazy to do all my own flashcards (though I am following the learning order from Remembering the Kanji) when I could just subscribe to WaniKani and have it all handed to me on a silver platter. A couple months later, he estimated I had learned more kanji over 2 months than he had in years. Just assembling your own materials admittedly involves a lot more up-front work and a steeper learning curve, but the process itself has a lot of mnemonic power.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#126

Post by lottin »

shmat wrote: post #113
tmountain wrote: post #108

I've been hacking language learning for about five years, and I've spent ridiculous amounts of time trying and reading about different strategies. I've been to Cuba, Mexico, Spain, and Puerto Rico to try immersion in different settings. Getting to a solid level of competency in a language actually is not that hard. It just requires dedication and consistent practice. That said, native speakers operate on a different…

I completely agree that there is a huge gap between B2 and that level you describe as automatic. I'm currently trying to bridge that gap, but I can't live in France so I think it will take me years. I know people who have done it without immersion, so I know it's possible. My solution is to "immerse" myself at home. I do 90% of my reading in French. 90% of the podcasts I listen to are in French. I watch French TV sho…

It's a highly effective method in my experience. Also don't forget the production side, you need to practice talking and writing too. You can talk to yourself if you have no one to talk to, it works just as well.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#127

Post by shmat »

mumblemumble wrote: post #125
shmat wrote: post #101

I studied French from 7th-12th grade in an American High School. After that, I could not understand any French beyond "bonjour". I could not have a conversation in French. I could conjugate verbs and I could read some. Fast forward 45 years and I retired and decided to actually learn French. I followed a very, very similar method and after 9 months of self study took a 2 week intensive course in France where I was to…

I'm convinced that a classroom is the worst possible environment for actually learning a 2nd language. There are just so many reasons why. Probably the most insurmountable one is that the pace at which the class can move is limited by the pace at which the least motivated student is going to learn. But I also think that it's just a structurally bad environment for efficient language learning. Since everyone needs a c…

That's one thing I disagree with in the original post. Like you, I created my own Anki deck and I'm convinced it's a better way to learn.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#128

Post by dbeley »

karatestomp wrote: post #26
Brakenshire wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You could just watch French TV, films or podcasts, there's more access to that material now than there ever has been.

It’s still much tougher to come by that one might think. For one thing, European networks don’t care about distributing their content outside of Europe, even in exchange for actual money. For another, a huge proportion of the content is dubbed from English, which isn’t ideal. Even pirating the stuff’s pretty hard, since there’s (apparently) little interest in it. Japanese may be a pain in the ass to learn but it’s ha…

If you're interested in french podcast I can highly recommand the French public radio network Radio France. I'm pretty sure they're available anywhere in the world and they produce tons of contents (music, news, science, cultural podcasts) and all of it is available on replay for free.

France Inter is the main radio station, France Culture the "intellectual" one and France Info the live news radio.

Also the best music in the world is on FIP.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#129

Post by shmat »

lottin wrote: post #126
shmat wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I completely agree that there is a huge gap between B2 and that level you describe as automatic. I'm currently trying to bridge that gap, but I can't live in France so I think it will take me years. I know people who have done it without immersion, so I know it's possible. My solution is to "immerse" myself at home. I do 90% of my reading in French. 90% of the podcasts I listen to are in French. I watch French TV sho…

It's a highly effective method in my experience. Also don't forget the production side, you need to practice talking and writing too. You can talk to yourself if you have no one to talk to, it works just as well.

Production is absolutely important, but harder to do. I talk to 3 French people every week, 30 minutes in French in exchange for 30 minutes in English. I also have conversations with myself in French (like a schizophrenic). Where I have been lazy is writing. I need to write more and get it corrected.

Re: I Learned French in 12 Months

#130

Post by laurieg »

jason0597 wrote: post #66

> Started consistently covering 50 new words a day on Anki That's a lot! I could never do that... I'm learning Japanese, and I could never imagine myself doing more than 10 words a day.

The author definitely benefits from French and English being related languages. Remembering that "interesting" is "intéressant" takes a lot less effort than remembering it is "おもしろい".

I studied Japanese full time for a year and would probably average something like 20 word a day but even that was pushing it. I advise people to aim for 3-5 words a day and be consistent. Adding huge amounts of words very quickly and then giving up on reviewing them is all too common.

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