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FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

flif.info

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Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#121
post #42

In terms of getting it into chrome: https://bugs.chromium.org/p/chromium/issues/detail?id=539120 > Keep in mind that the author of the FLIF works on the new FUIF ( https://github.com/cloudinary/fuif ) which will be part of the JPEG XL. So, probably FLIF will be deprecated soon. And as far as JPEG XL is also based on Google PIX, there is a high probability that Google will support this new format in their Blink engine…

Is JPEG XL also suited to replace PNG like FLIF?

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#122
post #6

The section "Works on any kind of image" is really misleading, as it mentions JPEG as a lossy format (alongside JPEG 2000) then says "FLIF beats anything else in all categories." It really needs a giant caveat saying "lossless". I mean, that's still great and impressive, but it clearly doesn't erase the need for a user to switch formats as a lossless format is still not suitable for end users a lot of the time. (It d…

The page offers a pretty deep comparison at https://flif.info/example.html

FLIF relies on progressive loading instead of lossy compression, and still beats BPG and WebP except on the very low end.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Interesting. Where have you seen that adoption will be swifter with JPEG XL instead of, say, AV1/AVIF? (Speaking as someone who's seen several open, licensing-unencumbered image/video/audio formats fail to get traction with a majority of browsers).

This presentation covers why AVIF isn't a great replacement for JPEG-- mostly that it's slow, complicated, and lacks a progressive mode. https://www.slideshare.net/cloudinarymarketing/imagecon-2019...

Why would the lack of a progressive mode matter? How is a progressive mode better than a "loading..." spinner?

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#124
post #47

Always cool to see new visual compression libraries hit the scene. That said I think the hardest part isn't the math of it, but the adoption of it. Likely the format with the best chance of overthrowing the jpg/gif/png incumbents is AVIF. Since it's based on AV1, you'd get hardware acceleration for decoding/encoding once it starts becoming a standard, and browser support will be trivial to add once AV1 has wide suppo…

Is AVIF lossless like FLIF?

It can be but it looks like it balloons a lot of files to do so.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#125
post #77

I wonder how it compares with simply LZMA'ing (i.e. 7zip) a BMP. In my experience that has always been significantly smaller than PNG (which is itself a low bar --- deflate/zlib is a simple LZ+Huffman variant which is nowhere near the top of general-purpose lossless compression algorithms.) Along the same lines, I suspect BMP+LZMA would likely be beaten by BMP+PPM or BMP+PAQ, the current extreme in general-purpose co…

Do you have any examples of zipped bmp's compared to png. Seem strange if that was indeed better.

Well I just took a screenshot and tried it. BMP: 6MB. lzma-compressed bmp: 75K. PNG through optipng and pngcrush: 178k.

Not very surprising imho. PNG was never a strong compression format to begin with.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#126
post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>You can go back from XL to jpeg losslessly as well I don't think so, but I don't quite see the point unless you are thinking of using it as a way to archive jpeg's, but in that case there are programs specifically for that, like PackJPG, Lepton etc.

How is it possible to have one-way only lossless compression?

Decompressing and recompressing a zip gives a lossless copy of the actual data, but there's no way to reconstruct the same exact zip you started with.

The same thing can be done with image data. For something like jpeg you can keep the coefficients but store them in a more compact form.

For what it's worth JPEG XL claims that it's 'reversible', but I'm not sure if that means you get your original jpeg back, byte for byte, or you get an equivalent jpeg back.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This presentation covers why AVIF isn't a great replacement for JPEG-- mostly that it's slow, complicated, and lacks a progressive mode. https://www.slideshare.net/cloudinarymarketing/imagecon-2019...

Why would the lack of a progressive mode matter? How is a progressive mode better than a "loading..." spinner?

The theory goes that it’s better to show the user something resembling the final image than showing them a generic loading spinner.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This presentation covers why AVIF isn't a great replacement for JPEG-- mostly that it's slow, complicated, and lacks a progressive mode. https://www.slideshare.net/cloudinarymarketing/imagecon-2019...

Why would the lack of a progressive mode matter? How is a progressive mode better than a "loading..." spinner?

The talk is by the FLIF author. One of the big marketing points for FLIF is its progressive mode. Of course every other codec will be criticized for not having one.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#129
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Does it have the feature where the file can be truncated to any size to form its own thumbnail? That would be an incredibly useful feature in so many applications.

Surely not any size. It'd have to be squares or something for that to make any sense, right?

Some amount of data at the end of the file won't be usable, but it's easy to make a format that's resilient to you chopping anywhere.

Re: FLIF – Free Lossless Image Format

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This presentation covers why AVIF isn't a great replacement for JPEG-- mostly that it's slow, complicated, and lacks a progressive mode. https://www.slideshare.net/cloudinarymarketing/imagecon-2019...

Why would the lack of a progressive mode matter? How is a progressive mode better than a "loading..." spinner?

Progressive mode is better than a loading spinner in the same way that PWAs are better than a loading spinner: By getting mostly usable content in as little time as possible to the user you decrease perceived wait, you decrease time to interactive and you increase perceived loading speed (even though time to full load might be the same or slightly increased).
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