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Angular 9.0

blog.angular.io

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Re: Angular 9.0

#121

Post by filoeleven »

ErikAugust wrote: post #99
filoeleven wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT the upgrade path is still the same (0) and...it looked pretty painful when I first looked at moving from 1.x to 2. I maintain a sizable 1.x codebase and am deciding what to move to, since 1.x is dead next year. I just don’t see a good reason to go to 2+. It’s a different framework. All of the UI libraries we built upon (ng-grid, angular-ui) are either gone or different enough that we will have to redo all of o…

AngularJS is dead next year, but really that doesn't stop you from using it indefinitely. Of course it can be fun to rewrite everything.

Google declaring end of support is enough to make us have to move. Banks are kinda picky about security updates.

We’ve had a bunch of long-standing state management bugs and performance issues too ($watches, $watches everywhere, nor any prop’s in sync) that we built a lot of cruft around trying to fix, mostly due to two-way binding and our weird use case. Some were unfixable due to the framework and others due to bad early decisions. But This Time!!

It will definitely be fun to rewrite. The app is so much like a web-based dumb terminal that a view-layer library like React was probably always a better fit for us, had we known about it when we started the project. Plus the JS ecosystem is a lot nicer now: arg destructuring and VS Code’s intellisense thanks to es6 imports are both big productivity wins. Also, not having to maintain a gulpfile is its own blessing.

Re: Angular 9.0

#122

Post by mrighele »

_xnmw wrote: post #28
topspin wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What happened to React? It's on the wrong end of almost all of those micro benchmarks. I know micro benchmarks don't tell the whole story, but when you consistently wind up on the slow end it's not a good look.

React was a mistake of the last decade. React itself is a great academic idea (i.e. pure functions, composability), but the whole React-Redux boilerplate mess (I dare not call it an "ecosystem" because that word implies harmony of some sort) is the the result of an entire generation of code monkeys and job seekers who didn't design their technology stack with any real engineering consideration, but rather on the basi…

I use React and I find it fine. I don't use Redux though, so it may be the reason why we had different experiences.

I think that just by using Hooks and Contexts you can get a lot done in a predictable way without adding too much complexity. With typescript and a proper IDE you get also wonderful type-checking and refactoring capabilities.

I used AngularJs (1.x) a lot before and in comparison it was both more complex and full of unexpected behaviors.

I have less experience with Angular (2+), but I found it much more complex and in some parts over engineered.

Re: Angular 9.0

#123

Post by dragonwriter »

dnautics wrote: post #109
Bahamut wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn’t say the same no matter the domain - junior devs can and will surprise you, and because React gives you less guardrails for app architecture, it likely has the potential to go far worse.

Well obviously they'll be CR'd. If you stick to prop drilling and functional code there's far less you can do abjectly wrong.

> If you stick to prop drilling and functional code

Juniors new to React are unlikely to do so, IME (as a semi-new-to-React not-junior working on a team with new-to-React junior-ish devs -- by experience; there isn't a formal junior/not-junior distinction on our team.)

OTOH, if you do things you really shouldn't do in React, while they won't all be flagged, there's a very high probability it will result in at least related warnings pointing to it in the devtools console, so that's something.

Re: Angular 9.0

#124

Post by kabes »

zaphirplane wrote: post #91
kabes wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used both for non-trivial apps. I find angular heavily over-engineered. The problem is not just the learning curve, but the fact it becomes almost impossible to do anything the framework authors didn't envisage. React is just plain functions so you can do whatever you want, it never got in my way. Now, if angular would prove substantially better in terms of performance or maintainability or so, that might've bee…

That is an unfair comparison a fairer one is react + redux + hooks + middleware thunk + routing vs angular. You are still probably right in what is simpler. Just angular is kind of the kitchen sink option

I'm comparing my experience from rather big real world apps. So the react app had all of that (didn't use redux though).

To give just one example. If you want to dynamically import components, in react you just use a dynamic import, since it's just like importing any other js function. Compare this to the angular way and draw your own conclusions: https://angular.io/guide/dynamic-component-loader . Granted, angular may have things that are easier to achieve than react as well. And I don't like the looks of jsx and so on. But my generic experience was that angular was always working against me. It reminded me of my java EE days.

Re: Angular 9.0

#125

Post by mnm1 »

How often do they release major versions? It seems every few months there's a new major version update. Having been burned once with angular, combined with this aggressive release schedule, by themselves are enough to make me not even consider angular. It could be the greatest framework in the world and I still wouldn't consider it. Not everyone is building throwaway prototypes and garbage startup code. Many people need stable libraries and frameworks that last many years and don't need time consuming updates and migrations constantly. Angular is clearly not this.

Re: Angular 9.0

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

_the_inflator wrote: post #93
pacala wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Angular: Learn about property binding, event binding, pipes, templates, views, metadata, attribute directives, structural directives, services, modules, components, injectors. React: Write a function that generates a piece of HTML. Use standard event handlers to manage user interactions. Update state via setState methods. Ship it.

Angular really shines in Enterprise context. 13+ teams and all use the same stack. Enter React and you are in maintenance hell, is my experience.

If you have enough governance in an enterprise org to standardize on Angular, you should also have enough to standardize on a particular React stack, and not just "React".

Re: Angular 9.0

#127

Post by kabes »

kumarvvr wrote: post #82
kabes wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've used both for non-trivial apps. I find angular heavily over-engineered. The problem is not just the learning curve, but the fact it becomes almost impossible to do anything the framework authors didn't envisage. React is just plain functions so you can do whatever you want, it never got in my way. Now, if angular would prove substantially better in terms of performance or maintainability or so, that might've bee…

I am curious. I have never used Angular or React seriously. But I have an upcoming project where I have to use an external HTML Canvas library. Would you suggest I go with Angular or React? It's a fairly complex project, involving user based label designs, data manipulation, etc. I am API based server and a heavyweight front-end.

React and angular basically both do the same thing: render a component tree to (usually) the DOM. You use a framework to make this easier for you and I think react does that way better. But if it's all about raw data manipulation and using that canvas lib, you may not need either?

Never used it myself, but the guys from Flipboard made this react canvas renderer which might be useful for you: https://github.com/Flipboard/react-canvas

Re: Angular 9.0

#128

Post by crubier »

tannhaeuser wrote: post #112
crubier wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the exact opposite opinion. React is the only sane way to do web development. All other approaches are deeply flawed by either relying on imperative mutations of the DOM instead of clean declarative code, or by relying on ugly templating syntax and data attributes instead of just using JS basic constructs like react. The power of react is just at its beginning, as we can see with things like react-three-fiber…

I'm not a React hater (in fact, I like it a lot when it fits ) but I think when people criticize React, they're actually after the one-size-fits-all attitude displayed in comments such as yours. No, React is clearly not "the only sane way of doing web development" considering the web hosts many types of markup applications, the most successful ones predating React by decades.

Only sane way, you missed a word. Of course there are other ways, but they clearly flawed in my opinion. I used to hate web development before 2014 and now I love it. Php is an awful language, jquery was a nightmare. Angular makes no sense hence why it keeps reinventing itself, Vue forces you to have some logic expressed using an ad hoc language in templates like it’s 2010 instead of just using JS constructs etc...

I stand by my point, I am yet to find a use case where some form of react is not the best solution. Whether it is server side rendered, a single page app, or statically rendered.

The only criticism I hear about react boil down to people complaining about bad practices that are not linked to react, but merely conflated with it, like not caring about bundle size, messing architecture or other aspects that are orthogonal.

Re: Angular 9.0

#129

Post by pjmlp »

Yuioup wrote: post #117

I have a policy of only shipping "back-end" apps because I'm worried about performance, browser compatibility and SEO. I don't know if the situation has improved in Angular 9. Does anybody here use Angular for their customer facing websites?

We follow the pattern Java/.NET traditional BE stacks, Vue and Angular (on this order).

So far I have only deployed Angular once in production for an IoT Dashboard.

It was based on Material Dashboard, it was good enough for the monitoring use case, but it was for on-premises deployment.

Re: Angular 9.0

#130

Post by filoeleven »

rubicon33 wrote: post #110
filoeleven wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AFAICT the upgrade path is still the same (0) and...it looked pretty painful when I first looked at moving from 1.x to 2. I maintain a sizable 1.x codebase and am deciding what to move to, since 1.x is dead next year. I just don’t see a good reason to go to 2+. It’s a different framework. All of the UI libraries we built upon (ng-grid, angular-ui) are either gone or different enough that we will have to redo all of o…

What is with this bazaar conviction that classes are bad?

I caught the Clojure strain of the functional bug. OOP is the devil, and mutable state is his pitchfork. “this” was a mistake.

The more I can compose with pure functions that operate on immutable data, the happier I am.

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