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A guide to freelancing in Finland

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Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#121

Post by iagovar »

euro_expat wrote: post #90
iagovar wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spain and France have entrepreneur visas.

So if I am rich or can convince the people that I have the right sort of idea, I can try there? I don't think that's quite the same thing as letting a person succeed on their own merit in the free market. It sounds like much the same as what I saw elsewhere in Europe - the state or a group of rich people picking winners, who more often than not don't win.

Then, like anywhere else, you can try to become a citizen. I mean, it's not like Spain has very strict requirements.

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#122

Post by ForHackernews »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #45
climate_realist wrote: post #36

I think people here who look at Finland and Europe in general and see these social programs to help you get ahead are rather blinded by the reality that they only exist for Europeans. As a US citizen who lived in Europe for 5 years, I can assure you that it's a 100% closed game. If you are not from the EU, you can only work for a European. It makes no difference if you have a great idea, or even your own funding, you…

I am also an American who lived in Finland, Austria, and Denmark for, cumulatively, over 5 years. I now own and run a small but successful bootstrapped American SaaS. What bothered me is that in all the above countries, they try to encourage entrepreneurship through rigged government programs. These programs offer grants and other benefits to 'the right kind of startups' - usually ones that are fashionable because th…

> These programs offer grants and other benefits to 'the right kind of startups' - usually ones that are fashionable because the subject is currently hyped - ai, climate change, etc.

As opposed to the American VC model currently driving such vital innovations as "how do we make middle class people use a jitney cab service?", "what if short term office leases came with free beer?", "will lazy people pay to have food delivered?" and "oh will they pay to have other stuff delivered, too?"

Look, I kind of get what you're saying, but it's not as if US startups are immune from bragging about "changing the world" and I'm more willing to put up with that bragging if you're at least trying to solve an actual hard problem.

The government should be funding crazy blue-sky long shots like small-scale fusion reactors and surgical nanobots because nobody else will. It's hard to make money on that kind of thing in the short- to medium-term but if it came to fruition, it really would be transformative.

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#123

Post by NightlyDev »

throwaway13337 wrote: post #45
climate_realist wrote: post #36

I think people here who look at Finland and Europe in general and see these social programs to help you get ahead are rather blinded by the reality that they only exist for Europeans. As a US citizen who lived in Europe for 5 years, I can assure you that it's a 100% closed game. If you are not from the EU, you can only work for a European. It makes no difference if you have a great idea, or even your own funding, you…

I am also an American who lived in Finland, Austria, and Denmark for, cumulatively, over 5 years. I now own and run a small but successful bootstrapped American SaaS. What bothered me is that in all the above countries, they try to encourage entrepreneurship through rigged government programs. These programs offer grants and other benefits to 'the right kind of startups' - usually ones that are fashionable because th…

"these countries have such high taxes and other restrictions, the only benefit to starting a business there are these programs"

Well, that's not true. You also have a good safety net if it doesn't work out. Quality of life, happiness, health care and education is also good or among the best.

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#125

Post by berdario »

climate_realist wrote: post #36

I think people here who look at Finland and Europe in general and see these social programs to help you get ahead are rather blinded by the reality that they only exist for Europeans. As a US citizen who lived in Europe for 5 years, I can assure you that it's a 100% closed game. If you are not from the EU, you can only work for a European. It makes no difference if you have a great idea, or even your own funding, you…

I feel that a lot of comments from US folks here are a bit hypocritical:

> It makes no difference if you have a great idea, or even your own funding

Most european countries (most countries in the world, actually) have some kind of entrepreneur/investor visa, but most importantly:

You might be able to start a company in the US while officially traveling for tourism/business, but that's actually a flaw and not an advantage: If you're lucky you might be able to regularise your position, but you might just get denied entry back in the US the next time that you'll travel. Good luck running your business in the US, then.

If you want to move to the US and start your own business, something like the O-1 visa won't cut it, since unlike any European work visa, it won't give you a path to permanent residency. You want the EB-1, EB-2 or EB-5 visas. The first 2 are much harder to obtain (even if you got a O-1), and the EB-5 is not open to all nationalities. Finally, you'll need way more than 100.000$ (probably at least 500.000$) to be able to be approved for an EB-5.

US requirements are steep, and even if you have a great idea and funding that's probably not going to be enough. Getting to work for an established local company, owned by natives, is the most straightforward way to get a work visa. That's true in the US just like in most other rich countries (but obviously it requires finding a company willing to sponsor you, like a FAAMG, but those have a famously selective interview process. And on top of that you have H1-B caps.)

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#126

Post by amylene »

mattmanser wrote: post #100
reitzensteinm wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's OK if nobody invests. There's no god given right for the well connected middle class to play Silicon Valley for their own gratification.

So only Americans can make these sort of companies? This is a deliberate investment by their government, and yes they shouldn't be handing out to Americans who can go to SV and get their handout from their VCs.

Do you also believe these countries should accept the consequences of not influencing the next generation of successful startups?

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#127

Post by amylene »

euro_expat wrote: post #89
throwaway13337 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also an American who lived in Finland, Austria, and Denmark for, cumulatively, over 5 years. I now own and run a small but successful bootstrapped American SaaS. What bothered me is that in all the above countries, they try to encourage entrepreneurship through rigged government programs. These programs offer grants and other benefits to 'the right kind of startups' - usually ones that are fashionable because th…

This is also my experience. In Denmark they have a startup scene of sorts, but they literally only fund startups that are by the "right" people or are trendy. I never saw anything get funded on merit, just if you are Danish and in particular, if you came from the elite socioeconomic strata. I never saw any interest in if the idea was sound, if the kid applying for the money actually knows anything about it, etc. It a…

To be fair, this is how it works in the US too. Just some of the values are changed.

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#128

Post by barbarbar »

euro_expat wrote: post #89
throwaway13337 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am also an American who lived in Finland, Austria, and Denmark for, cumulatively, over 5 years. I now own and run a small but successful bootstrapped American SaaS. What bothered me is that in all the above countries, they try to encourage entrepreneurship through rigged government programs. These programs offer grants and other benefits to 'the right kind of startups' - usually ones that are fashionable because th…

This is also my experience. In Denmark they have a startup scene of sorts, but they literally only fund startups that are by the "right" people or are trendy. I never saw anything get funded on merit, just if you are Danish and in particular, if you came from the elite socioeconomic strata. I never saw any interest in if the idea was sound, if the kid applying for the money actually knows anything about it, etc. It a…

Can you name some examples?

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#129

Post by fsloth »

reaperducer wrote: post #118
fsloth wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Companies that haven't managed to raise money from private investors" This comment is a bit off topic for Finland. It does not have large capital markets looking for a good investment. It's a capital poor country. Which is a good thing to know, if you come here looking for startup funding. The reason you don't find strong local seed funding is not because government blocks them. The reason is there is no capital for…

Startups don't need large capital markets. The vast majority of new businesses in the United States don't get VC funding. They get small investments from friends, families, local banks, etc...

Well, you do need capital markets, even small ones. For cultural reasons Finland really does not have them. For example, there are no local banks. The whole country has only a few large banks which all require collateral. And here, you don't really go asking for an investment from friends and families.

The main cultural difference here that failure is seemed extremely shamefull. And taking loans from friends and family more or less dubious. And if you failed, and had asked loans from friends and families, would be crushingly shamefull. Hence this creates fear, hence it's not really done.

Re: A guide to freelancing in Finland

#130

Post by fsloth »

reitzensteinm wrote: post #107
fsloth wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You do realize our way of life was built from investment? Scientific revolution gave us ideas but industrialization gave us the means the realize those ideas to the benefit of all mankind. To not to invest means no creative destruction, and stagnation.

You were responding to a specific complaint, and I was responding to your response. European governments are throwing money at questionable startups in the hope of replicating SV. Being opposed to that is not the same as not believing in investment as a general principle (?!).

Ah, sorry. Your comment was just that "It's OK if nobody invests". I was responding to that in general principle.

European governments are throwing money at all sorts of dubious things. I don't think being inept about how to create new business value is the worst thing they do. At least there is funding available.

I suppose the thing that ires you is - is this funding inclusive or is it only supplied to cronies. Knowing european systems, I think, like everywhere, having connections of course helps, but in general the systems are built with some level of inclusivity in mind.

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