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Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

dino.im

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Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#121

Post by bachmeier »

giancarlostoro wrote: post #106
bachmeier wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The present is, however, Slack. Actually, in terms of number of users, the present is MS Teams. Both companies release their numbers and it's not even close.

Not surprised there. Plenty of companies already in bed with Microsoft. This allows them to maintain a "familiar" setup to everything else they have. Still feel like competitors can do better though. Microsoft Teams looks nice but people still have issues with it. I only used it long enough to not see those issues.

> This allows them to maintain a "familiar" setup to everything else they have.

What's important is that when you log into your email account, you're logging into Teams, Planner, etc. I recently started using Planner, as awful as it is (seriously, you can't even drag cards!) because I can't expect others to adopt a new tool.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#122

Post by BlueTemplar »

SamWhited wrote: post #118
BlueTemplar wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While it's worrying that Matrix uses the layer 7 HTTP (does it make it "layer 8"?) compared to XMPP's potentially more efficient use of layer 4 TCP, it's still better than the closed alternatives... (And JSON > XML !)

I'm no fan of XML and think its use is one of XMPPs biggest flaws, but I wouldn't pick JSON over it… with XML at least you get a lot of the stateful encoding and namespacing (eg. extensions) right in your XML library of choice, with JSON you have to reinvent all of that which is more code, more spec, etc. I'm not really sure if there is a good alternative to XML, sadly :(

Oh, I wasn't aware of these issues - thanks for the information... would YAML help here ?

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#123

Post by jandrese »

vertex-four wrote: post #105
jandrese wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what Jabber used to do back in the day at the least.

Basically, the assumption is that you have your SRV records set up properly. Modern XMPP clients, like Dino, will then reconnect automatically to a server that they can access, and read history to find anything they missed. Horizontally scaling XMPP servers exist, it's probably up to you to find one that works well in a multi-site configuration though. Your other option is just to give everyone their own XMPP address…

But again, if you're not the domain admin you are pretty much SOL. It's not a friendly technology for the hobbyist.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#124

Post by eikenberry »

bachmeier wrote: post #104
ajconway wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Matrix seems to be the future now. The present is, however, Slack.

> The present is, however, Slack. Actually, in terms of number of users, the present is MS Teams. Both companies release their numbers and it's not even close.

Completely due to bundling. My last employer was using Slack until MS basically told them they could have Teams for free as part of the O365 subscription.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#125

Post by aidenn0 »

Flowdalic wrote: post #99
aidenn0 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Psi seems to be abandoned at this point. No carbons support, for example.

It still shows sign of ongoing development though: https://github.com/psi-im/psi/graphs/contributors?from=2016-...

Wow, looks like it's back from the dead!

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#126

Post by vertex-four »

jandrese wrote: post #123
vertex-four wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Basically, the assumption is that you have your SRV records set up properly. Modern XMPP clients, like Dino, will then reconnect automatically to a server that they can access, and read history to find anything they missed. Horizontally scaling XMPP servers exist, it's probably up to you to find one that works well in a multi-site configuration though. Your other option is just to give everyone their own XMPP address…

But again, if you're not the domain admin you are pretty much SOL. It's not a friendly technology for the hobbyist.

The hobbyist is the domain admin. What situation are you thinking of where they're not?

It's not a friendly technology for enterprises where it might take weeks to add a DNS record, maybe. But nor is much else.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#127

Post by fiatjaf »

mekster wrote: post #81

It's sad that we don't have a very good self hosted chat solution. Last time I checked around, XMPP didn't have a client that I could recommend to business clients that looked easy/simple to use, has no gotchas and looks native. Currently I use Mattermost, which does basic things fine and things are stable but the formatting is just getting in the way making texts unnecessary big and bold when people never intend to…

You basically listed all features ever invented. There's not a single "hosted" chat app that has all the features you want.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#128

Post by kitd »

SamWhited wrote: post #117
kitd wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone recently pointed me at DeltaChat [1]. 'Chat' over SMTP/IMAP. Apart from voice/video, it ticks all of the above (plus other features such as threading and e2e security), with the fallback of being able to use a regular email client in an emergency [1] - https://delta.chat/en/

Does this have a standards body behind it advocating for and developing a spec that anyone can implement? I'd argue that this is a requirement for any communication system to take off and be useful and sustainable long term.

SMTP - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc821

IMAP - https://tools.ietf.org/html/rfc3501

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#129

Post by mekster »

otabdeveloper4 wrote: post #107
mekster wrote: post #81

It's sad that we don't have a very good self hosted chat solution. Last time I checked around, XMPP didn't have a client that I could recommend to business clients that looked easy/simple to use, has no gotchas and looks native. Currently I use Mattermost, which does basic things fine and things are stable but the formatting is just getting in the way making texts unnecessary big and bold when people never intend to…

> - WYSIWYG formatting instead of automatically parsing symbols into bold texts etc WhatsApp is the most popular chat app among non-technical users in the world, and it explicitly uses symbols instead of WYSIWIG for formatting. I'm pretty sure you're making up these requirements without actually researching your target audience.

What does your research say?

I'm barely mentioning the features which people would generally expect out of chat apps.

Regarding the WYSIWYG, I always hear complaints, including myself that texts get weirdly formatted when they paste from somewhere else and it does more harm than good when symbols are automatically parsed, so the other option would apparently be WYSIWYG editor, which anyone will have no problem comprehending how to use.

You can't just expect everyone to read and learn formatting rules to type. I'm an engineer but I don't even want to remember some Mattermost formatting rules to avoid unintended transformations.

Re: Dino: An open-source application for XMPP messaging

#130

Post by mekster »

Andrew_nenakhov wrote: post #103
mekster wrote: post #81

It's sad that we don't have a very good self hosted chat solution. Last time I checked around, XMPP didn't have a client that I could recommend to business clients that looked easy/simple to use, has no gotchas and looks native. Currently I use Mattermost, which does basic things fine and things are stable but the formatting is just getting in the way making texts unnecessary big and bold when people never intend to…

(self-promoting here) We're building Xabber in exactly this direction. Currently, of your list wee lack multiple people voice/video calls, and also a native client for desktop. Web version is rather mature already, with android / iOS clients coming to shape fast and will soon be released. We'll likely make an Electron-based desktop version, though of course it far from ideal However, doing all this great stuff we had…

Nice to know someone is working to create a sane solution.

Building for the web first and porting to Electron for desktop and webview for mobile is good as you can have identical interfaces for users to switch between and less bugs to chase for developers and I see no downside with that path.

I understand multi user calls/videos isn't simple as I still use Skype just for that for a group of people and it seems to do that part fine.

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