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DigitalOcean is laying off staff

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Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#121
post #54

Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan. That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave b…

Cloud hosting is not low margin. But DO cannot have the monopoly margin enjoyed by AWS and alike. One example, the hardware cost for AWS probably will be significantly cheaper than DO. That alone can sentence Do to death. And frankly, DO is better at UX, its technology is not innovative in any measure. By definition, that's a death penalty to a firm of its size.

Speaking as someone with extensive background both in cloud and hosting:

Cloud hosting is low margin. You sell IaaS at about the cheapest possible price point you can. That's the very definition of low margin. Economies of scale don't enter in to whether or not it's a low margin business, they only define how competitive you can be in a low margin business.

IaaS is not where you make the money. The margins have to be tight to be competitive because that's the dollar value people see first when evaluating your cloud platform. It has an immediate effect from day one.

The profits are not made on IaaS, but on the PaaS and SaaS solutions that you, as a cloud provider, build on top of the IaaS. Things like your DBaaS, Streaming, Functions, Load Balancers, Data warehouse etc. products.

Once they're on your platform, that's when you try to get them to pivot. "Why spend engineering effort on running and maintaining database servers, when we can do it for you immediately?" Of course, then once they're using your value-added solutions, they start to get towards vendor lock in, every business's favourite situation. A customer that can't leave!

It's a difficult balancing point, you want to make it seem to the customer like they can realistically leave any time they want, but you don't want them to so you do just the absolute bare minimum you can get away with to make it seem like they're not locked in to your platform.

It seems like it took Digital Ocean a long time to realise that they need the SaaS and PaaS components if they're going to be in this for the long haul. When we launched Oracle Cloud Infrastructure some 3 1/2 years ago, we launched with features that Digital Ocean hadn't yet bothered with, and we were trying to launch with what was seen as the bare minimum to be a viable cloud product.

DO only added load-balancers in 2017, https://techcrunch.com/2017/02/14/digitalocean-launches-load..., and a Block Storage service in 2016. That's (in both cases) 8 years after AWS launched EBS (2008) and ELB (2009).

Prior to those services existing, it was relatively easy for any customer to just drop Digital Ocean for another cloud provider, but even those services aren't a big lock-in for customers.

I sincerely hope it's not too late for them. I like Digital Ocean. They really shook things up when they first hit the market, by bringing something a little different to the plate, but that was never enough to survive and it seems like they only relatively recently realised that.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#122
post #55

I'm rooting for them as one of the best potential guardians against the cloud provider market becoming even more of an oligopoly. Cloud resources should be a commodity. Providers should offer compute resources, persistent storage, load balancers, and MAYBE a small handful of other services. The way Digital Ocean succeeds against AWS is by aligning itself with this idea, and competing on specialization. Forget competi…

At $275m in sales they're already a drop in the AWS/GCE/Azure buckets though...

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#123
post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Digital Ocean gives me peace of mind. Unlike Amazon or Google, I am confident I'm not going to get a $300k bill from DO overnight.

This is actually huge. Especially in a startup or other small business. Misconfiguring something in AWS (or just simply not understanding their contrived billing models) can get unpredictably expensive.

What about AWS Lightsail? https://aws.amazon.com/lightsail/pricing/

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont think an existing cloud provider makes sense since they’ve all ramped their efforts pretty hard to compete with each other. I would suspect AAPL would be the buyer. It is a big risk for all iOS apps to be backed by infrastructure belonging to other companies they compete with in consumer devices. I think AAPL would want to make another option available.

I guess iCloud is hosted on AWS? I never actually looked. It doesn't seem to be that big of an issue for Apple though. And if it did happen I guess that wouldn't be so bad, I mean it could be worse. Oracle could decide to get into the cloud business by buying out DO.

If I remember correctly, iCloud is actually hosted by Google.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#125
post #103
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

curious what makes you bullish? i'm a total outsider but it does feel like the walls are closing around smaller players as the big get bigger.

Digital Ocean gives me peace of mind. Unlike Amazon or Google, I am confident I'm not going to get a $300k bill from DO overnight.

I'm still amazed that there's no billing cap in Amzn/Goog.

Google tried to charge me $1000 for a service normally costing $1 / mo because of a runaway restart issue. I had a $2 / mo "max budget" on it and we responded within minutes of receiving a budget alert. I only got them to reverse the charge after doing a ton of work to prove that my team reacted in their budget alert that was more than 6 hours late. They still seemed to think that was fine (?!) but because I had some great graphs and a HN-oriented blogpost ready to go, they reversed it anyways. That sounds kind of like blackmail, now that I think about it, but no more than what they're doing sounds like fraud.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#126
post #54

Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan. That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave b…

Maybe instead of using expensive SSDs. A topology of many spanning disks in large ZFS clusters by using PCIe HDD controllers. Then link the machines via 10GBe could provide you the speed and performance you require require. I've set up a moderate size pool of 1Pb across 16 physical servers on 4 full size racks. This cost less than 50k. Electricity and cooling come from solar. Its the damn internet connection for people to access it that is the cost killer.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#127
post #54

Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan. That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave b…

If they ramped that $5/month to $20/month after X months, I would keep paying it. Digital Ocean is a fantastic deal, everything I've tried straightforwardly works, and the fact that I can't accidentally spend money as I experiment is a real boon.

Are you absolutely sure about that? There are several other services at $20/month that would offer a much more compelling value proposition compared to Digital Ocean's lowest-tier droplet.

I would definitely have signed up for a competitor if DO droplets cost 400% what they do now. As other commenters have said, this space is a brutal race to the bottom in pricing. DO is great, I might pay 50% more for their current services, but not 300% more.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#128
post #54

Digital Ocean is a great company in a brutal, low-margin industry. Based on having run a similar (now mostly defunct) company in the past, I would guess that 80% of their customers are on the $5/mo plan. That $5/mo has to cover the hardware costs: you're buying expensive physical servers to put the VPSes on, and lots of SSDs too. SSDs have a limited lifetime measured in writes, and some of your customers will leave b…

If they ramped that $5/month to $20/month after X months, I would keep paying it. Digital Ocean is a fantastic deal, everything I've tried straightforwardly works, and the fact that I can't accidentally spend money as I experiment is a real boon.

Yes, this. I was paying $24/mon after the backup service for something that basically just proved that I owned a domain. For years, using basically just 1 IP address.

Re: DigitalOcean is laying off staff

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It could easily be both a re-org and dressing the profitability numbers prepping for a sale. The fact that its mostly management is encouraging though.

I really hope they don't get acquired by one of the big cloud providers.

For acquirers, it makes more sense for it to be some other company that wants to add 'cloud provider' to their list of services. To avoid losing their customers to amazon or google or MS.
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