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iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

appleinsider.com

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Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#121

Post by OkGoDoIt »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #104
jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

Without sideloading I can't use a 3rd party youtube app that has no ads, no tracking and allows downloads. I also can't use my pebble watch because the official app is unsupported and only community supported software exists. I also am restricted from some content that android users of the same app can view because apple prohibits adult content inside of apps. I see a phone as a tool to do what the user needs. Not th…

I agree in principle, but if you want to get your Pebble working, check out “Rebble”. I’m happily using my old Pebble steel smart watch with iOS!

Potentially more on topic though, Apple gives significantly more functionality to the Apple Watch that third-party devices will simply never have access to. That’s the kind of lock-in I am annoyed about when it comes to iOS. Google play music will always be a second-class citizen compared to Apple Music, as is Google maps compared to Apple Maps. OneDrive and Fropbox will never be allowed to match the built-in functionality of iTunes back up. Flux can’t work on iOS, you’re stuck with the built-in Night Shift. Third-party keyboards are finally allowed, but they’re definitely second-class citizens and tend to not work very well due to operating system limitations.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#122

Post by lilyball »

saagarjha wrote: post #90
lilyball wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absent memory pressure, apps can stay open for up to 10 minutes in the background. The correct solution here is for the app to request background processing and to schedule a local notification in 9 minutes saying that the app is about to run out of background time and pause (and then clean up the notification if the user returns to the app before it fires). This means you're not abusing anything, and it lets the use…

Under normal usage, iOS will kill apps a lot earlier than 10 minutes. In the general case it's really not possible to do this, and I would argue that shipping with a flaky feature is probably worse than not shipping with it at all.

I haven't checked in a while but in the past it was fairly reliably 10 minutes.

In any case, there's a property `UIApplication.backgroundTimeRemaining` that tells you how long you have, so you can use that to calculate the appropriate notification time.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#123

Post by baddox »

kelnos wrote: post #113
jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

> This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. I have not heard anything that suggests Android phones work less than iPhones. That's certainly not been my experience, anyway. I've been using Android phones for 10 years now and they've always worked just fine. And I can sideload things, which I still do, and wouldn't want to give up. > Not letting you side load is a fe…

I would say that anyone who would even consider it remotely desirable to be able to sideload apps has very different desires and expectations about how much they will "fiddle" with their phone to get it working they way they like. In other works, "it always worked just fine" probably means very different things to someone who would want to sideload apps than the average smartphone user who has never even heard of "sideloading."

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#124

Post by jzvxkxbxjx »

Polylactic_acid wrote: post #104
jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

Without sideloading I can't use a 3rd party youtube app that has no ads, no tracking and allows downloads. I also can't use my pebble watch because the official app is unsupported and only community supported software exists. I also am restricted from some content that android users of the same app can view because apple prohibits adult content inside of apps. I see a phone as a tool to do what the user needs. Not th…

You’re seeing it as a computer. It’s a phone.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#125

Post by xs83 »

As someone who works in this space I see this from an alternative angle. Yes we use data like this in order to advertise to you, No Apple is no better than Google at how they approach this - they are just walling you further into their walled garden.

Google uses your location information to track your locations in order to provide better (more relevant) advertisements through their own ad platform.

Apple does exactly the same but because it doesn't have it's own ad platform this gets sent to their "Approved Partners" who do it on their behalf.

Stopping 3rd parties from being able to use this data simply tightens the circle, the data is anonymous (for the most part) and while there are companies that exist out there to tie this data to an actual person most companies like ours have no need to do so.

Likewise what you will start seeing off the back of this is a decrease in advert quality.

Like anyone - I despise adverts, but if I HAVE to see them I at least want them to be relevant products that I am interested in. Soon the only people who will be able to provide those insights will be Apple Partners or Google.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#126

Post by arvinsim »

jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #95
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never owned an ios device in my life and strongly avoid them but this makes drift slightly over considering one. If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.

“ If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.” This was the reason I was an android guy until my wife told me to just get a phone that works. And you know what? Not letting you side load is a feature. When you see it like that, you care a lot less about your phone, and just appreciate that it works and that you can trust it as your more intimate possessions .

Or you just decide to not sideload on Android. Problem solved.

I fail to see it as a feature.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#127

Post by JMTQp8lwXL »

Enginerrrd wrote: post #117
JMTQp8lwXL wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's probably more money to be made in Apple themselves becoming the middle man for location data, rather than charging a very small number of people who care a premium to prevent sale of said data. From an ethical standpoint, I see where you're coming from, but from a business acumen perspective, I can't see it being more profitable.

I disagree. Treating customers badly is not a good long term business strategy. You can get away with it when customers don't know what you're doing, and you can absolutely get away with it by trading reputation for money for a long time when you have major market penetration or pseudo-monopoly, but eventually the public sours on the relationship. This trend has been seen in major retail stores. (Sears comes to mind…

What other privacy-minded phone are people going to run to, if Apple sells out? Google? Apple could absolutely be playing the long con here. Much like Google did with Chrome, allowing uBlock as a browser extension for nearly a decade.

If Apple does struggle to grow profitability through services, or can't find it's next "iPhone", I would expect to see profits grow from some potentially unsavory options. They wouldn't be Apple's first option, for sure, but in a world where Apple's business plateaus, privacy is on the chopping block.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#128

Post by ThatPlayer »

foolfoolz wrote: post #116
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have never owned an ios device in my life and strongly avoid them but this makes drift slightly over considering one. If apple allowed easily sideloading apps I would consider moving over.

for most people the last thing they want is to add another app on their phone. but somehow the need for more apps is what keeps you away?

I don't think anyone has an issue installing another app for a feature the phone doesn't have.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#129

Post by Polylactic_acid »

jzvxkxbxjx wrote: post #124
Polylactic_acid wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without sideloading I can't use a 3rd party youtube app that has no ads, no tracking and allows downloads. I also can't use my pebble watch because the official app is unsupported and only community supported software exists. I also am restricted from some content that android users of the same app can view because apple prohibits adult content inside of apps. I see a phone as a tool to do what the user needs. Not th…

You’re seeing it as a computer. It’s a phone.

This is the typical response I expected. "Your using it wrong!!"

Explain to me why the use case of using youtube without adverts or connecting my phone to my smartwartch is invalid.

Re: iOS 13 app tracking alert has dramatically cut location data flow to ad industry

#130

Post by egdod »

xs83 wrote: post #125

As someone who works in this space I see this from an alternative angle. Yes we use data like this in order to advertise to you, No Apple is no better than Google at how they approach this - they are just walling you further into their walled garden. Google uses your location information to track your locations in order to provide better (more relevant) advertisements through their own ad platform. Apple does exactly…

> Apple does exactly the same but because it doesn't have it's own ad platform this gets sent to their "Approved Partners" who do it on their behalf.

Apple sends my location information to third parties? Citation needed.

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