Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll • Hacker News Board

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#121

Post by m11a » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

The biggest issue I have with this is:

> "the very rich should be allowed to keep the money they have, even if that means increasing inequality,"

Wording a question like that is so... biased. Maybe we should work on fixing how the enormous amount of tax money is spent now before asking taxpayers for more? $700bn in funding for military (around $1tn all funds considered), yet there's "increasing inequality". US spends 2x the amount the UK does on health per capita, yet the UK can afford single payer health. Administration costs are through the roof.

I think this is a case where "throwing more money at the problem" isn't the right solution.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#122

Post by jshaqaw » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:47 PM UTC

sct202 wrote: post #34

akhilcacharya wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In most places it already qualifies for a wealth tax in the form of a property tax...

Exactly! A huge portion of the middle class's wealth is tied up in property equity that is taxed every year. The ultra wealthy's wealth is primarily in business ownership or equity which is only taxed on gains when it's sold.

Sort of. While there are far too many complex exceptions and loopholes, a non pass through entity pays corporate tax on earnings. The tax on capital gains is a second tax on the same earnings.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#123

Post by uep » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

derp_dee_derp wrote: post #2

this is a classic case of tyranny of the majority. Majority of Americans favor stealing wealth from others.

This is grossly simplified, but I feel like I'm responding in kind.

The fundamental nature of a non-co-op business is that the company gets more value per person than it costs to employ that person. Companies have been "stealing" wealth from employees since they've existed.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#124

Post by jshaqaw » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

tempsy wrote: post #73

I honestly think so much of what we take as "normal" in society today will change dramatically once Millennials become dominant holders of political offices.

Or much of what millennials believe will shift when they become middle aged and holders of reasonable positive net worth.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#125

Post by 0x8BADF00D » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:48 PM UTC

kevingadd wrote: post #113

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Every time the government is involved they fuck it up. They are incompetent and make a career out of being maliciously incompetent. They will spend the money on stupid programs and unnecessary foreign wars. We already cannot trust the government with our tax revenue. These sickos are salivating over additional income to do extremely immoral things with.

We've cut taxes repeatedly in the US and repeatedly cut benefits spending but we're still starting new wars. Starving the beast isn't going to fix anything, there's always money for war. If they're really salivating over additional income why aren't taxes increasing? (Other than on the poor, of course) Want to stop wars? Stop wars, directly. Then once the war expenses are gone, you have way less government spending (…

> If they're really salivating over additional income why aren't taxes increasing?

Because a socialist hasn’t been elected President yet. World will wake up when that happens, and will no longer buy your funny money IOUs. When that happens I will happily watch you tear yourselves apart. I’ll be nowhere near this country when that happens.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#126

Post by virtuous_signal » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:50 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #65

ohazi wrote: post #33

I'm skeptical that most respondents understood the questions correctly. Most people are familiar with income tax, because they know that money is removed from their paycheck every month. Many also file tax returns. A wealth tax, where a fraction of your bank balance is removed every month, is a totally alien concept to most people. If you haven't thought about it before, it can take a minute or two to wrap your head…

> A wealth tax, where a fraction of your bank balance is removed every month, is a totally alien concept to most people. If you haven't thought about it before, it can take a minute or two to wrap your head around what it would actually mean. Many Americans already experience a form of wealth tax: property tax. You are taxed a percentage of the value of your property, something not terribly liquid. Incidentally, a ha…

There is a good reason property tax isn't quite like a wealth tax: property tax is used to pay for services provided by the municipality (schools, libraries, roads).

More similar to the wealth tax would be the so-called https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_value_tax that does make the rich pay for "hoarding" land as a commodity, without creating the the disincentive to improve the land (which is a side effect of property tax, which is levied on the value of the entire lot + buildings)

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#127

Post by ohazi » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

spamizbad wrote: post #65

ohazi wrote: post #33

I'm skeptical that most respondents understood the questions correctly. Most people are familiar with income tax, because they know that money is removed from their paycheck every month. Many also file tax returns. A wealth tax, where a fraction of your bank balance is removed every month, is a totally alien concept to most people. If you haven't thought about it before, it can take a minute or two to wrap your head…

> A wealth tax, where a fraction of your bank balance is removed every month, is a totally alien concept to most people. If you haven't thought about it before, it can take a minute or two to wrap your head around what it would actually mean. Many Americans already experience a form of wealth tax: property tax. You are taxed a percentage of the value of your property, something not terribly liquid. Incidentally, a ha…

1. Many people rent, and have never seen a property tax bill, despite paying it indirectly via their landlord.

2. It's not the same thing. You can choose how extravagant a house to live in relative to your total wealth and your income to make sure that you can cover the property tax bill while still meeting your saving goals.

An "everything else" wealth tax, (by definition) doesn't allow you to do that. Your control over how aggressively you want to save or spend is greatly reduced by an overall wealth tax.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#128

Post by Pigo » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

jandrese wrote: post #10

nightski wrote: post #3

I feel the wealth inequality issue needs to be addressed. My only problem with the wealth tax is that it takes money from the wealthy and feeds it to the government. I am having a hard time connecting how that improves the situation of the lower and middle classes.

Yeah, it is a total mystery how adequately funding social welfare programs could somehow help the poor.

I agree that many programs/departments need more funding, but the places with the most money seem to be doing the worst. It seems like more money is only part of the problem.

I think if they showed better efficiency and results, the public would be much more inclined to contribute. There's a lot of cynicism from witnessing so much waste and mismanagement.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#129

Post by mindcrime » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:51 PM UTC

ohazi wrote: post #33

I'm skeptical that most respondents understood the questions correctly. Most people are familiar with income tax, because they know that money is removed from their paycheck every month. Many also file tax returns. A wealth tax, where a fraction of your bank balance is removed every month, is a totally alien concept to most people. If you haven't thought about it before, it can take a minute or two to wrap your head…

I don't think we should let politicians sneak this through unless we're confident that the public actually understands what is being proposed.

We shouldn't let politicians sneak this through regardless of what the public understands. Taxation is theft.

Re: Majority of Americans favor wealth tax on very rich: poll

#130

Post by jshaqaw » Fri, Jan 10, 2020, 6:52 PM UTC

0x8BADF00D wrote: post #84

A wealth tax is unconstitutional. From the Constitution: “Representatives and direct taxes shall be apportioned among the several states which may be included within this union, according to their respective numbers, which shall be determined by adding to the whole number of free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons.“ How do…

Pretty sure much of the existing state and local tax base is already funded by a wealth tax called property taxes. I agree implementation gets harder when you get into more escoteric assets like art.