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Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

independent.co.uk

121–130 of 236 posts

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#121

I'm personally excited to see what sorts of new treatments will come out of using psychedelics medically. I've always been on the skeptical side of medical marijuana usage in all but the most extreme cases, but I have a feeling that LSD and psilocybin can really provide mental turning points and help people break out of depression.

Sativa-dominant strains have psychedelic qualities, offering dramatic introspective, frame-shifting experience. It isn't as profound an experience as one from psilocybin, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. I've experienced realizations while under the influence of sativa dominant strains similar to, if not greater than, those uncovered during therapy with a psychologist. However, other times the re-framing of re…

Throwaway because I don't like to tell people I smoke.

I must echo this entire post. I'm able to learn so much about myself when high. Far more personal than a therapist ever gets. I do introspection sessions after smoking. I smoke twice a week and do at most 5 hours of introspecting every week. This year I'm doing every other quarter.

After smoking I think about how to better myself and insights just flow in perhaps about 3 really good ones a session. And while yes about 10% of my insights are incorrect it's not a problem to write them all down in your phone and verify in a couple hours.

Doesn't seem like many people have similar experiences.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#122

The study seems to be this one: https://doi.org/10.3389/fphar.2017.00974 Would it kill the PopSci article to include the DOI to the actual study?

OK, we've changed to that from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/magic-mushroom-dep.... Thanks!

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#123
post #91
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> heavy-metal soil toxicity; by pesticides; by coincidental allergens in non-active-ingredient plant matter The exact same risks are in your grocery store produce aisle. I'll grant that illegal marijuana has higher risk, but if it's regulated like any legal food crop I don't see the difference; in fact, I'd say there's less, since people consume it in relatively low quantities.

...which is precisely why hospital food is just as processed as drugs are, to remove those variables. Doctors know there's a certain number of X-factors a patient can't avoid (like e.g. eating food from random sources if they're not under in-patient care) but they don't want to introduce new ones if they can help it. Another analogy: a doctor will never prescribe you "a supplement." They might tell you getting more v…

> Another analogy: a doctor will never prescribe you "a supplement." They might tell you getting more vitamin B in your diet would be good, but they'll never tell you to go out and buy a vitamin-B complex supplement. If they think you really need vitamin-B in a pill, they'll prescribe an actual big-pharma-pipeline-produced pill containing vitamin B.

You've seen very different doctors than I when it comes to calcium/D- and B- vitamins/multivitamins. They'll usually tell you "go get this over the counter." Sometimes with guidelines like "but not one of the ones with iron" or such.

Or even if they prescribe it, the pharmacy that gets the prescription (or maybe your insurance company - I forget which exactly had the problem with it when this happened to me) might say "just go grab one of the over the counter vitamins."

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#124

Yes no doubt they’ve found it safe when allowing for the effects to fully wear off and at a certain dosage. Chemicals of this class are similar in structure to serotonin itself and do the opposite of SSRIs. This would mean the therapy is meant to go straight through problems regarding depression not simply make one happier. Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if…

"Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if the participant doesn’t have their mind settled"

One of the most interesting interviews about psychedelics that I've heard is one with Stanislav Grof, who personally supervised over 4,500 LSD sessions throughout his life (many of them during his research in to its effects, back when LSD was legal) and at about 1 hour and 56 minutes in to the interview he said:

"If somebody has a bad trip that means they are dealing with a difficult aspect of their unconscious and when it's coming up, it's coming up for healing... people can benefit from bad trips. I saw many of those situations where people experience what they would be hospitalized for in the psychedelic sessions, and if we stayed with it, it would actually be a major healing, a major transformation."[1]

I also found in my own experience that my bad trips were the ones that I learned the most from and the ones that I found the most beneficial, because they would force me to face my demons and other major issues that I would avoid facing in my sober state of consciousness.

Interestingly, the study this HN post links to seems to refer to something like this:

"Recent work has sought to develop and validate a measure that is sensitive to difficult or challenging psychedelic experiences (Barrett et al., 2016; Carbonaro et al., 2016) and there is some evidence that the intensity of such experiences is predictive of positive long-term outcomes, whereas the duration of struggle is predictive of negative outcomes (Carbonaro et al., 2016). This is presumably because the successful resolution of conflict brings with it, insight and relief, whereas the failure to breakthrough perpetuates suffering."

My impression from listening to and reading many interviews with veteran psychedelic researchers (who did studies with pretty massive doses of psychedelics back in the 60's) is that they seem to believe that an inability to "break through" was due to having too low a dose, and I wonder if that's the case in the unresolved difficult experiences this study refers to. On the other hand, too high a dose of psychedelics can result in post-trip amnesia (and current psychedlic researchers seem to be erring on the side of caution and give moderate doses). So there's probably some good middle ground.

[1] - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mdYUmvTeig

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#125

Yes no doubt they’ve found it safe when allowing for the effects to fully wear off and at a certain dosage. Chemicals of this class are similar in structure to serotonin itself and do the opposite of SSRIs. This would mean the therapy is meant to go straight through problems regarding depression not simply make one happier. Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if…

"Generally speaking psylocibin is more prone to culminate in a really bad trip than delysid if the participant doesn’t have their mind settled" One of the most interesting interviews about psychedelics that I've heard is one with Stanislav Grof, who personally supervised over 4,500 LSD sessions throughout his life (many of them during his research in to its effects, back when LSD was legal) and at about 1 hour and 56…

My bad trips made me learn to stop tripping. But my good trips made me learn a whole lot more about what might have been possible for myself and my social anxiety after I stopped. I'm still learning lessons related to those insights but compared to the confidence I had on a trip versus the confidence I have now I say I'm 70-80% at that level.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#126

The study seems to be this one: https://doi.org/10.3389/fphar.2017.00974 Would it kill the PopSci article to include the DOI to the actual study?

That's not the correct study. That one is from 2017 and published in 2018. The newest one used 89 patients.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#127
post #122

The study seems to be this one: https://doi.org/10.3389/fphar.2017.00974 Would it kill the PopSci article to include the DOI to the actual study?

OK, we've changed to that from https://www.independent.co.uk/news/health/magic-mushroom-dep... . Thanks!

That's the wrong study.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#128
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Let me put it this way: the big-pharma drug manufacturing (and more generally, medical-equipment manufacturing) pipeline is set up such that the only thing about a drug that should be able to kill someone, is if the drug's active ingredient itself has a bad interaction with their body. "Should be" is a giant risk factor... "Don't worry Mrs. Jones, this drug shouldn't be able to kill you unless you have a terrible al…

Certainly, the creation of novel molecular compounds is risky, and you can only mitigate the risks you know about. But that's not the comparison we're talking about here. We're not talking about smoking marijuana plant-matter vs. taking new GSK LessCancerPainIum™️. We're talking about smoking marijuana plant-matter vs. taking a pill that was created by processing grown marijuana plant-matter, or with an active ingred…

Active ingredients in pharmaceuticals kill people all the time. I recommend looking up FDA black box warnings before taking any prescription. My doc prescribed something to me without knowing about a recent black box warning.

FDA does a lot of good, but the trials that bring a drug to market are not foolproof, and many doctors prescribe off label.

I would estimate that legally regulated cannabis's other ingredients are an order of magnitude or two less risky than taking any pharmaceutical that has come to market in the past 20 years.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#129
post #111

Recently tried shrooms for the first time and was a bit underwhelmed, but not sure if I'm micro-dosing or what. Tried the regular variety and some other allegedly Thai shrooms, which definitely had a stronger effect. I tried a few stems at first, and then ramped up the dosage with slightly more 'visuals', but it's like I have to eat a whole handful or just let my body learn to process it or something.

From what I've heard (no real scientific data to back this) the stems contain very little psylocibin. And the dosage for mushrooms is surprisingly high. For run of the mill strains, I believe 3.5 grams is considered a standard dose. Which is still not a blast you off the planet amount, but enough to experience visual distortions and euphoria.

The stems are the most potent part of the specimen. The caps have less psylocibin than the stems. If you bruise the fresh (and sometimes dry) specimen, you can see it turn blue. That indicates the presence of psylocibin. The smaller the specimens, the more psylocibin per gram you will have in a dose as there is significant psylocibin even in tiny specimens, including ones that have barely formed caps.

Re: Psilocybin found safe for consumption in largest ever controlled study

#130
Counter-anecdote: I've experimented with this stuff extensively in various settings and have known many other people who did, and in my experience it's unequivocally bullshit.

Here's what happens.

First, any given trip alleviates depression for about a month or two. That makes sense to me in a sense that the word "trip" isn't a coincidence-- a really fun intense vacation in a foreign country also alleviates depression for a month or two. You swear that when you come back things will be different, but then you have to answer slack messages at 9pm, and your project is slipping at work, and your wife is flirting with strangers every time you go to a bar, and well... in a month or two you're back to feeling exactly the same way you did before (until you take the next vacation).

Second, people who discover psychedelics go on a multiyear quest for enlightenment. They keep taking various drugs, keep feeling like they understand things better and better, get sucked into the psychedelic social vortex of other truth-seekers, and generally believe that their life is full of meaning and is going to turn around at any moment. Except by any objective measure they're still nervous wrecks-- they have every physiological symptom of stress and depression, and aside from temporary alleviation of their symptoms (see part one), they always regress to the mean.

Third, after a few years of this people eventually reach a fork. Most people realize that their psychonautic journey is at best leading them in circles, and at worst is causing their life to spiral down the drain. So they give it up, get a job without 9pm slack messages (or find a better way to adjust to stress), marry someone who isn't constantly on the verge of cheating, start doing regular exercise, and generally find a way to settle into a reasonably balanced life.

A small minority of people double down, grow out their (usually grey by then) hair down to their shoulders, go to festivals and workshops, talk of energy and chi and chakras, stare into the eyes of strangers, and touch each other's faces.

Generally speaking, I haven't run into anyone yet who found a third path. So, while I'd be the first to admit I'm wrong and celebrate if this proves to actually work, if I were a betting man I'd bet against at any reasonable odds and sleep secure in the knowledge that my money is safe.

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