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Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

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Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#121

Post by peteretep »

foldr wrote: post #115
MiroF wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not and the vast vast majority of those sentenced to under a year (even for skipping bail) are released in 2/3 time as per sentencing guidelines in the UK. Unsure why so many people are invested in arguing that this is just the routine functioning of the law when it certainly isn't

>It's not and the vast vast majority of those sentenced to under a year (even for skipping bail) are released in 2/3 time as per sentencing guidelines in the UK. He's already served his time. He's currently being detained prior to his extradition hearing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49689167

Just a note that you are doing sterling work here correcting the firehouse of falsehoods being deployed.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#122

Post by anongraddebt »

Synaesthesia wrote: post #82

Wikileaks has a faultless record. They’ve never had to retract a publication. Assange, like him not not, was a reporter, who reported uncomfortable facts about the military and our ruling class. He is being punished, tortured really for this “crime”. He has been endlessly and baselessly slandered. All that alleged bad behaviour while he was imprisoned in the embassy ... funny how there’s been no footage of it, despit…

I used to be a fairly strong supporter of our military. Not blanket support (since there are always exceptions to anything), and I wasn't super enthusiastic/patriotic like some are, but in general I had a pretty positive view.

My uncle is a general in the Air Force, all three of my grandfathers fought in WW2 (my Dad's biological father was killed by a drunk driver when he was 7), etc etc. I have pictures of my grandfather standing under the Arc de Triomphe in Paris with the tank squad he commanded.

Wikileaks helped change my mind quite a bit. Among the many things they published, there was one video that really stood out: POV camera from a apache as the pilot releases a missile into a group of civilians that included a number of journalists. Things like this couldn't be ignored, because of Wikileaks record. You couldn't start off down a path of rationalizing, etc. They made you face up to the ground-level reality.

I still support and appreciate the people who serve in our armed forces, but thanks to Wikileaks I have a much more nuanced,skeptical, and (I believe) more appropriate view.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#124

Post by jessriedel »

samatman wrote: post #49
INGELRII wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not mutually exclusive. * Sometimes individuals must break the law for greater good. This is called civil disobedience, or civil resistance. * Just because one is breaking the law for common good, civil servants can't and should not be expected to stop enforcing the law. If you allow that, it's the end of the rule of law based society. The whole idea of just society is that you restrict what individuals in the g…

Civil disobedience is breaking a law because you believe the law itself is wrong. As invented by Thoreau, and practiced by Gandhi and MLK. Breaking a law you otherwise believe in, in the service of some broader goal, is called direct action, riot, or terrorism, depending on the severity of the law broken, and/or the sympathies of the person describing it.

Yes, civil disobedience means you believe the specific law itself is wrong, but not the law-making process. The justness of the law-making process is why the classic method of practicing civil disobedience involves accepting the punishment. MLK:

> In no sense do I advocate evading or defying the law, as would the rabid segregationist. That would lead to anarchy. One who breaks an unjust law must do so openly, lovingly, and with a willingness to accept the penalty. I submit that an individual who breaks a law that conscience tells him is unjust, and who willingly accepts the penalty of imprisonment in order to arouse the conscience of the community over its injustice, is in reality expressing the highest respect for law.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#125

Post by MiroF »

foldr wrote: post #115
MiroF wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not and the vast vast majority of those sentenced to under a year (even for skipping bail) are released in 2/3 time as per sentencing guidelines in the UK. Unsure why so many people are invested in arguing that this is just the routine functioning of the law when it certainly isn't

>It's not and the vast vast majority of those sentenced to under a year (even for skipping bail) are released in 2/3 time as per sentencing guidelines in the UK. He's already served his time. He's currently being detained prior to his extradition hearing: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49689167

Exactly - so he is in jail for crimes he has not yet been tried for.

That was the exact point that the user sneak above was making.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#126

Post by CalChris »

rcMgD2BwE72F wrote: post #38
threeseed wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is alleged that Assange coordinated with Chelsea Manning and the Russian government to obtain information for Wikileaks. This would make him an active conspirator in breaking the law. Completely different from Facebook, Google, Twitter etc where they merely provide a platform for others to upload content and aren't actively involved in sourcing illegal content.

Sure, but the Barton Gellman, from the Washington Post, coordinated with Ed Snowden to publish his leaks, too. Breaking the law in such a way is just not sufficient to explain why he ends up in prison.

coordinated != publish.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#127

Post by spaced-out »

corporate_shi11 wrote: post #107

I was part of a news and current events Facebook group a few years ago, when WikiLeaks was primarily known for leaking evidence of the US Military's abuses in the middle East. Most of the people in this group were Democrats or otherwise on the Left. They cheered WikiLeaks and loved that it was exposing the abuses of a group they didn't like. Fast forward to 2016, and WikiLeaks begins publishing damaging information r…

The reason many people turned on Wikileaks was because he clearly sided with Trump in 2016. He released the info he had on Hillary to damage her campaign, even though it didn't show anything illegal, yet he refused to publish the documents he had on Trump.

People sided with him because they believed he was impartial, and turned away from him when it was clear he wasn't.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#128

Post by jczhang »

jpz wrote: post #25
flurdy wrote: post #15

I thought he would be released from remand when the Swedish charges were dropped. And then expected the UK gov to keep him at a psychiatric ward as he seems a little unstable which they could embellish. Did not expect him to still be in Belmarsh.

He is in jail for the offence of jumping bail. That Sweden dropped the charges doesn’t dismiss that offence. The UK spent 10s of millions on policing costs monitoring abscondment. It is entirely right that he is serving a sentence as for reasons of deterrence.

23 hr solidary confinement with sedation is torture, not a sentence.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#129

Post by corporate_shi11 »

spaced-out wrote: post #127
corporate_shi11 wrote: post #107

I was part of a news and current events Facebook group a few years ago, when WikiLeaks was primarily known for leaking evidence of the US Military's abuses in the middle East. Most of the people in this group were Democrats or otherwise on the Left. They cheered WikiLeaks and loved that it was exposing the abuses of a group they didn't like. Fast forward to 2016, and WikiLeaks begins publishing damaging information r…

The reason many people turned on Wikileaks was because he clearly sided with Trump in 2016. He released the info he had on Hillary to damage her campaign, even though it didn't show anything illegal, yet he refused to publish the documents he had on Trump. People sided with him because they believed he was impartial, and turned away from him when it was clear he wasn't.

Except he was clearly "siding" against the US military throughout his early history. He was never impartial (whatever that means), people just happened to like the side he appeared to be on.

Re: Julian Assange “slowly dying” and “often sedated” in Belmarsh prison

#130

Post by nabla9 »

Karunamon wrote: post #94
nabla9 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assange is presumed innocent. Assange is in jail because his lawyers are challenging the US extradition request and there is legal process going on. There is no evidence of him being tortured. He seems to have mental problems. People getting mentally ill in jails is very common.

Solitary confinement is, at least, very unethical given its known deleterious impacts on mental health[1][2], and can be considered torture for most purposes[3]. [1]: https://semanticscholar.org/paper/8f8fbb6bd68357311bb82e48a8... [2]: https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2009/03/30/hellhole [3]: http://steinhardt.nyu.edu/appsych/opus/issues/2015/spring/co...

Nils Melzer, the UN special rapporteur on torture has said that Assange is not held in solitary confinement at HMP Belmarsh. Melzer objected against the limited ability of Assange to prepare his legal case.

It seems that John Shipton (father of Assange) used therm solitary confinement to describe situation where Assange's access to outside is limited to his lawyers and family.

I thing Assage is currently in the the prison’s medical ward.

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