Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

twitter.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 478 posts

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#121

Post by lotsofpulp »

walrus01 wrote: post #48
baybal2 wrote: post #7

Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it. You have to keep paying them for using your own property or else they remotely brick the device. First gen Ipods were a prime example, but now everybody seem to want to do the same. We recently had a prospective client who had an idea of very cheap intern…

> Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it, and have to keep your subscription going so the seller don't remotely brick your device. This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. I…

Unfortunately, as of 6 years ago, no one else had a competing product that saved me as much time as Meraki did. It was well worth the extra thousands.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#122

Post by userbinator »

squarefoot wrote: post #32
baybal2 wrote: post #14

Apple pays Chinese "recyclers" for not to refurbishing their I-stuff, and sending it to a crusher. That's not a big secret in the industry. A lot of luxury goods brands destroy their unsold merchandise, and some even go Apple style after their second hand market too.

"A lot of luxury goods brands destroy their unsold merchandise" This also happens since probably forever with fruit and vegetables if they're unsold or in overproduction. The reason is to keep prices fixed by artificially reducing the offer.

Fruit and vegetables and other perishable goods will effectively self-destruct if unsold anyway, so I don't see that as being quite as bad as deliberate destruction of product that would otherwise last indefinitely.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#123

Post by TeMPOraL »

nl wrote: post #77
segfaultbuserr wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's the reason. A pair of good speakers is the most useful equipment in audio. If I'm a millennial audiophool and want 192 kHz / 32-bit PCM, I'll simply put a new DAC in front of the original Hi-Fi amplifier. I won't throw the perfectly usable system away.

I think this was a sarcastic comment. Obviously "reproducing the ultrasonics" don't actually matter for music reproduction....

In all honesty, I'd like a system that could play and record ultrasound.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#124

Post by walrus01 »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #101
walrus01 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it, and have to keep your subscription going so the seller don't remotely brick your device. This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. I…

> This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. It's abhorrent. That crazy ass low price you paid on the hardware? Yeah it was a loss-leader with the expectation that you must be a SaaS customer for life if you desire to use it. It isn't difficult to understand, you just are religiously against it.

Thing is, the price isn't crazy low compared to competitors. It's for people who are confused and don't have the technical knowledge to do something like install the unifi controller software on a debian server. If you're scared of command lines, meraki is the product for you.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#125

Post by baybal2 »

rkochman wrote: post #15
BorisTheBrave wrote: post #11

So, Sonos optionally lets you brick your own device, as part of their Trade Up program that gives a discount on your next device. It's named Recycle mode as, presumably, all the bricked devices are good for is recycling. There doesn't seem to be anything stopping users from selling their speakers on - they just forgo the Trade Up discount. The poster's point that this cuts down on re-use of perfectly good products is…

I assume Apple and other companies sell the used products to liquidators who refurbish and resell them. Is that not true?

See my comment below. Apple actually pays recyclers for not refurbishing their goods, and shredding them instead.

Of course, the recyclability of the resulting shredded mixed mess is near zero.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#126

Post by lotsofpulp »

GhettoMaestro wrote: post #101
walrus01 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Well, this is where the industry is going. The latest buzzword we hear in the industry is called "product as a service" — you buy a product, but still don't own it, and have to keep your subscription going so the seller don't remotely brick your device. This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. I…

> This is exactly what Cisco has done in the small/medium sized business market with their acquisition of Meraki. Pay forever or your router and wifi stops working. It's abhorrent. That crazy ass low price you paid on the hardware? Yeah it was a loss-leader with the expectation that you must be a SaaS customer for life if you desire to use it. It isn't difficult to understand, you just are religiously against it.

6 years ago, Meraki access points were a few hundred each, and security appliances were a couple thousand, plus a hundred to a thousand per year in subscription fees. But I paid to, because ever since we did, we didn’t have to touch it, and install was a breeze. Well worth the time savings.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#127

Post by secabeen »

starsinspace wrote: post #19

So Sonos devices need "activation" via some server on the internet? Why? If I just want to stream audio within my own home, why is internet even necessary? And what happens when Sonos goes out of business and the servers are shut down? I just don't understand why people keep buying such things...

Because they want to stream audio from streaming services, which have APIs that change regularly, and require some level of DRM and subscription management. If you just want to stream audio from a local server, buy a squeezebox device. (They went under a few years back, the demand wasn't there, but they did have exactly the setup you want)

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#128

Post by p1necone »

kevin_thibedeau wrote: post #28
noodlesUK wrote: post #10

What’s intensely frustrating about this is that audio equipment is one of the few areas where old high end kit is still absolutely fantastic for current users. I have an NAD 3020 from the 1980s which works perfectly with the same pair of speakers that it was bought with. I can’t say the same about other tech, but audio just doesn’t age at the same speed.

Millennial audiophools need their 192kHz 32-bit playback. Grandpa's sound system just won't cut it for reproducing those refined ultrasonics.

Grandpa's sound system was analog, not digital (as are all sound systems at some point before the speakers because sound is analog)

In fact I actually have a 192khz, 32 bit dac connecting my PC to a Technics stereo amp from the 80s.

Pithy snark only really works when you actually understand what you're talking about.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#129

Post by TeMPOraL »

baybal2 wrote: post #114
userbinator wrote: post #106

If there's a demand, someone industrious will likely figure out a hack --- I hope. Server-side blacklisting (unlike whitelisting) doesn't stop someone from simply changing whatever unique ID they have to a different one. I can even see repair shops doing this service for those who accidentally bricked their devices. This reminds me of a related situation I've seen with electric toothbrushes --- they have instructions…

"Disposable electronics" is a big trend too. I myself saw not so few times devices that used rechargeable batteries, and a charging circuitry , but nevertheless were single use only. A lot of Bluetooth "beacons" are of such construction, and not so cheap at all medical devices will be coming second.

Reminds me of a certain very well known startup in beacon space. I visited them some 6 years ago, back when they were finishing their fist product - a nice-looking battery-powered Bluetooth beacon, completely encased in some kind of silicone. I asked them, well, what's the expected time until battery is completely discharged, and how do I charge it back or replace it? And the answers were, a year or three (depending on use), and you don't, because by the time the beacon dies, you'll want to get a newer, better one anyway.

One of the many reasons I never bought anything from them.

Re: Sonos's “recycle mode” intentionally bricks devices so they can't be reused

#130

Post by userbinator »

atomicthumbs wrote: post #105
jessriedel wrote: post #27

If the devices become useless, how is this any different from Sonos just offering customers "trade-in" value for their old devices (like for used cars) and then throwing them out? Just that the device doesn't get physically mailed to Sonos? Like if you think it's just spiritually bad to throw working things out, fine. But how is Sonos doing wrong by the customer?

Used cars don't get thrown out when they're traded in. And it's not "spiritually bad," it's actively destructive to the environment. Manufacturing things requires a great deal of energy.

Well, there was this, fortunately short-lived... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Car_Allowance_Rebate_System
Post reply on HN