If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead • Hacker News Board

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#121

Post by 1e-9 » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:45 PM UTC

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

Has your conventional keyboard typing suffered significantly? Seems like that might be a problem for laptop use when traveling without the special keyboard.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#122

Post by tracker1 » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:47 PM UTC

friggeri wrote: post #65

Building keyboards is such a rewarding activity. Once you go down that rabbit hole, you can go as deep as you want. Here's one I did a couple of years ago, including a custom PCB: https://medium.com/@friggeri/the-new-blanck-keyboard-c7563c4...

Nice... although I have so much muscle memory now, I don't think I could live with too much change (the spacebar in particular). Model-M for life! ;-)

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#123

Post by steve19 » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

BiteCode_dev wrote: post #112

My problem with such keyboard is that it assumes: - you will mostly work on the same place (or you accept the burden of traveling with your keyboard and be "that guy" when you set it up. Personally for the same hurdle, I prefer a secondary screen on the go) - you will mostly work on the same machine (or you have multiple keyboards, one for each machine, and if you are in a data center or tech support, you move with y…

> - you can afford the lower productivity (e.g: you are not a freelancer that needs a regular output)

Why lower productivity? The person who created it thinks it will lower RSI therefor increase productivity.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#124

Post by ganonm » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:49 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #94

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

It's not just about improving the bandwidth (although that is nice), the one thing I wouldn't trade that the Ergodox gives me is a very low error rate in typing. This is hard to achieve with a traditional keyboard, especially when you starting throwing special characters into the mix that require two-handed contortions.

I've heard the refrain "you don't spend most of your time typing when programming" so many times it's almost become a trope. I personally spend enough time typing during a typical day (working or otherwise) that I really appreciate the benefits of a highly optimised keyboard setup, although of course YMMV. I don't think the argument holds water.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#125

Post by ganonm » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:51 PM UTC

1e-9 wrote: post #121

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

Has your conventional keyboard typing suffered significantly? Seems like that might be a problem for laptop use when traveling without the special keyboard.

This is a very good question and it did in fact occur to me when I was designing the keyboard layout. Partly due to this concern I stuck with a QWERTY layout for alphabetic characters, so I'd at least retain some familiarity with traditional keyboards. Besides that, I'm typing on my laptop right now and often plug in a traditional keyboard if I'm gaming, so I haven't found lack of familiarity with a traditional keyboard a problem.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#126

Post by JoshTriplett » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:51 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #35

Am I the only one who doesn't quite fancy mechanical keys? For me, Mechanical keyboards cause fatigue as the key travel, regardless of which flavor of the key type, is too much. I prefer using Apple's new magic keyboar with numpad. It has a 1mm or so travel and feels fantastic.

> Am I the only one who doesn't quite fancy mechanical keys?

No, it's not just you. I prefer short-throw laptop keys, which require less distance and less pressure.

I use a USB version of the ThinkPad keyboard at my desk. (And I personally prefer the older version that includes a trackpad.)

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#127

Post by big_chungus » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:52 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #94

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

This differs from one man to the next, as well as by specialty. Some people work better by typing out code quickly, permuting it several different ways, and coming up with a final revision. On the other hand, I sometimes spend ten minutes staring at my screen, then bang out ten lines of code that get something _just right_. However, someone who's more devops/sysadmin focused might type more, as he's piping lots of tools together to filter the output of something, at least from my experience.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#128

Post by Moru » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:53 PM UTC

cyphar wrote: post #91

pottertheotter wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, I had never heard of that keyboard. It looks like it would be an absolute nightmare to set up and learn to use.

To be fair, most ergonomic keyboards have strange layouts. Such is the price for avoiding RSI.

The microsoft natural 4000 keyboard is pretty standard except split in the middle. It's good enough for me, no need to relearn but much better to use. I still get wrist problems but it takes longer.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#129

Post by ken » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:55 PM UTC

brandonmenc wrote: post #94

ganonm wrote: post #49

Around 2 years ago now, I took the plunge and bought myself an Ergodox EZ split island keyboard. Quite franky, it is the biggest quantum leap in the ergonomic experience of interacting with a computer I have seen since learning Vim. It is comfortable, effortless and fast. If you spend any significant time interacting with computers it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain…

> it is a complete no brainer to invest in optimising the IO channel between your brain and the machine Why? You'll never even double the "throughput" of that "channel", let alone improve it by an order of magnitude. And I say this as someone who wasted lots of time and money attempting exactly that before I realized that typing is not what I spend most of my time doing while programming.

One, it is a bottleneck. I don’t need to double it to see overall improvements.

Two, it’s not just about speed. Some small changes here led to much less physical pain.

Re: If You Can't Buy the Keyboard You Want, Build It Instead

#130

Post by tracker1 » Sun, Dec 15, 2019, 8:58 PM UTC

spectramax wrote: post #35

Am I the only one who doesn't quite fancy mechanical keys? For me, Mechanical keyboards cause fatigue as the key travel, regardless of which flavor of the key type, is too much. I prefer using Apple's new magic keyboar with numpad. It has a 1mm or so travel and feels fantastic.

There are options if you want less travel, I prefer buckling spring, and my second choice is Cherry MX Brown (anything cheap is probably a knockoff and feels different).. You'd probably like a Cherry MX clear with a ring to reduce travel after the trigger/bump.

For me the tactile feel is actually less fatigue as I'm not bottoming out like I am on low travel keyboards, I usually don't bottom out with them. I do know some that hammer on theirs and it gets crazy loud.

There have been a handful of IBM Thinkpad keyboards I didn't hate, but generally don't like laptop and low travel keyboards... I did get used to my ~2010 macbook pro kb eventually, my mid-2014 I don't use much and won't have it anymore at the end of the month.