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Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

theatlantic.com

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Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#121

Post by RaceWon »

aklemm wrote: post #56
isolli wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's also a similar theory to explain why boys are more interested in cars than girls (which my kids have proven convincingly, albeit with a low sample size): boys, as future hunters, are attracted to preys that move, hence, in the modern environment, to balls and cars.

All this back-and-forth about whether and how it's nature or nurture. The point of modern gender freedom is not to deny there is a strong nature influence, it's to nurture kids to go whichever directions they like. All these anecdotes about how this kid and that kid displayed common traditional gender preferences seem to be offered as an argument against trying to upset the traditional nature of these preferences. Su…

>Sure, maybe only 5% of girls are ever going to want to race cars, but the idea is to make room those 5%,

I love gals who race. I once had a female instuctor who was wickedly accurate in forumla ford; Molly could consistently put half the tire off the pavement without dropping it into the dirt, no mean feat that. Females are perhaps better suited to some forms of Motor sport than men are--they can be truly topline drag racers.

I don't necessarily agree with conscious effort sentiment however. Race drivers do Not discriminate against females on the track--we Hate every other competitor equally...it does not matter your race, creed nor gender.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#122

Post by rtkwe »

LanceH wrote: post #80
aklemm wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hope so, but I'm more sure that claiming progressives are trying to deny nature altogether is a useful straw-man for detractors with evidence only from the fringes. But how could you and I be more sure of what's really going on?

Perhaps the progressive movement should dig a little deeper for "proof" that a mere difference in rates of participation. The mere fact more men do something seems to constitute both proof that there is systematic sexism and that those males who are over represented are sexist. It gets tiring.

The problem is it's basically impossible to raise a kid free from acculturation about gender norms to get the best data on nature vs nurture, even if the home environment is set up to be neutral about gender roles they're going to interact with the outside world which still has a lot of gender bias in job roles.

My stance is if there is a natural preference it's probably slight and even if it isn't we should build a system that silos people into jobs because most people like them may prefer to do a particular thing.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#123

Post by pbhjpbhj »

kenforthewin wrote: post #98
pbhjpbhj wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the correct way to see things but it's contrary to public policies that say things like "there are less girls doing physics, so we're going to make quotas to get more girls doing physics". That's not supporting individual propensities at all. Overwhelmingly the feminist position that's pushed to the fore is "any lack of equal representation of females in a roles that're desirable is down to patriarchal actions…

This take disingenuously ignores the fact that society has forced gender roles since the beginning. Policies like that aren't an attempt to disregard nature, they're an attempt to undo some of the damage that has been done by society.

Sexism now doesn't solve sexism in the past, it just adds more needless discrimination.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#124

Post by ryanmercer »

bytematic wrote: post #117

I loved street sweepers as a kid and would always rush to the window to watch them go across our city street. I loved the idea of taking away trash/dirtyness, something about that simple purpose was cool. It was easy to understand, unlike business or insurance (what my dad did)

Same, I never paid any attention to garbage trucks but I was fascinated with street sweepers and similarly fascinated with the spinning brushes at car washes. Still am, and while I don't see street sweepers much anymore I genuinely enjoy going to the car wash and watching the multi-colored swirls of goo being slapped around my windshield by hundreds of little strips of fabric.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#125

Post by dangerboysteve »

I don't think this is garbage truck specific fascination. Many years ago, I recall reading a story about a father who noticed his kids being glued to the apartment window watching a construction site next door. They were fascinated by the large and loud machines. He built a DVD video business from filming busy construction sites for kids. It was a success. Kids love big loud colorful things that move.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#126

Post by rtkwe »

Pigo wrote: post #101
dhshahsndeisjwn wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that many girls are made to feel abnormal for expressing an interest in stereotypically male activities (as are boys in reverse). The key is to acknowledge first that our society is incredibly gendered (and racist) in ways we often oblivious to.

I've never studied parenting across the country, and I acknowledge that there are definitely cultures around the world where women are treated like property, but I've never witnessed a parent enforcing some gender stereotype for toys. It's hard to imagine a parent even caring what toy a kid is playing with, unless they are hurting someone.

It does still quite a bit, it's easy to forget how varied the US is. My cousin married a guy who's very into traditional toys for his son, a few Christmases back his son was playing with a doll with the other kids and he was not a fan of that at all.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#127

Post by Symmetry »

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #86
aklemm wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All this back-and-forth about whether and how it's nature or nurture. The point of modern gender freedom is not to deny there is a strong nature influence, it's to nurture kids to go whichever directions they like. All these anecdotes about how this kid and that kid displayed common traditional gender preferences seem to be offered as an argument against trying to upset the traditional nature of these preferences. Su…

That's the correct way to see things but it's contrary to public policies that say things like "there are less girls doing physics, so we're going to make quotas to get more girls doing physics". That's not supporting individual propensities at all. Overwhelmingly the feminist position that's pushed to the fore is "any lack of equal representation of females in a roles that're desirable is down to patriarchal actions…

We have to be careful not to draw too strong a line between any differences in attitudes between the sexes and career choices. When the Hollywood stereotype of a programmer was a lab-coated professional working in a team on an idealistic project which runs amok then just as many women as men entered programming. When the stereotype shifted to a loan hacker in basement waging a solitary war against The Man gender ratios went lopsided. You can blame teenagers for being foolish in how they're affected by pop culture but it's more effort than most people expend to figure things out better at that age. And there is a real gender difference in that the archetype of the hacker is more appealing to men, but for the vast majority of programmers the old Hollywood stereotype is actually much more accurate.

So even if gender differences are in some sense causal in differential representation that doesn't mean that they're inevitable or that they're something we should just accept.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#128

Post by LanceH »

rtkwe wrote: post #122
LanceH wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Perhaps the progressive movement should dig a little deeper for "proof" that a mere difference in rates of participation. The mere fact more men do something seems to constitute both proof that there is systematic sexism and that those males who are over represented are sexist. It gets tiring.

The problem is it's basically impossible to raise a kid free from acculturation about gender norms to get the best data on nature vs nurture, even if the home environment is set up to be neutral about gender roles they're going to interact with the outside world which still has a lot of gender bias in job roles. My stance is if there is a natural preference it's probably slight and even if it isn't we should build a…

It's not just about denying nature, but denying all the choices along the way by so many parties. You see something like, Company XYZ hires 2/3's men for something. They are called sexist, the people working there are sexist, it is a hostile work environment, etc... and it's the 2/3's number that is offered as "proof".

Further, just proposing that nature is the cause can get a person fired.

My stance is that lack of proof is being met with lack of proof by a group that is tired of being the target of constant accusations.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#129

Post by shantly »

brazzy wrote: post #113
Pigo wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've never studied parenting across the country, and I acknowledge that there are definitely cultures around the world where women are treated like property, but I've never witnessed a parent enforcing some gender stereotype for toys. It's hard to imagine a parent even caring what toy a kid is playing with, unless they are hurting someone.

Then your experience and your imagination are rather limited. Just a few quotes from /r/Parenting: "BUT his dad had a conniption when he found out that I bought him a baby doll and he thinks that he should not play with “girl” toys." https://www.reddit.com/r/Parenting/comments/b403o6/how_do_yo... "A lot of adults (men, women, young, old) make snarky comments in my son's presence about his toy selections (doll houses,…

The generous view of the dads worried about sons playing with girls' toys (no quotes around girls', because I guarantee the marketers intended them that way) is that they're concerned it'll signal "ostracize me and kick my ass, please; I'm an easy mark for gaining social status at the expense of another" to their peer group. Which doesn't make the effect any different, but the intent might not be to limit their sons' play per se.

[edit] what I mean is simply that those kinds of sentiments might be a reaction to perceived bias in culture, expressed as bias but not driven by same, if that makes sense. A kind of re-enforcing meta-bias. Again, doesn't make the effect any better.

Re: Why Kids Love Garbage Trucks

#130

Post by empath75 »

Waterluvian wrote: post #3

In the words of my two year old, "woah! It's so big!" I've learned not to over-analyze and trust what he says.

I took my 2 year old to the safari at animal kingdom and said: "Hey, there's a hippo!" and he said: "Wow, look how big that _rock_ is!" Kids don't know what's unusual to see at age 2.
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