Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

markosaric.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 570 posts

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#121

Post by gonational »

I used to use Google hundreds of times per day, literally everything I wanted to know I would type into Google.

Between their A) political activities (opinion influencing, censorship, etc.), B) business activities (user tracking, ruinous ads, etc.), and C) search quality issues (they have a major conflict of interest between providing good search results and maximizing A and B), I didn’t even have to try to stop using them out of principle; I literally just don’t get any value out of using Google search anymore.

I use DuckDuckGo (starting circa 2013), which provides a fairly similar/mediocre quality search experience, but without all the other aforementioned problems. The truth of the matter is that these search giants ruined search so bad that I don’t even really use search as much anymore. I’ve gotten to the point where I realize that I can no longer rely on finding things easily. This is not a problem of “the Internet has just gotten too big”. This is a problem created by Google, which has now set a low benchmark.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#122

Post by thejohnconway »

C1sc0cat wrote: post #84
thejohnconway wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Can they just penalize slow/large file size sites in their index? Well, that would be bad for the independent web, wouldn't it? I mean, you'd be penalising sites with large amounts of content, that aren't on a CDN. Large images or videos, for example, might be the entire point of the page in the first place. I don't want to be directed to to a webpage about an artist (for example) that has the crappiest, smallest a…

That's a very edge case - its more that front end design and developers need to get their act together and design and build for speed! Don't use complex but nice images designed for print on the web and not just copypasta god knows what js library.

Are you saying good, clear pictures are an edge case? I just can't agree, as I find them hugely relevant to a large number of subjects.

I don't think images are the problem, megabytes of third-party javascript is.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#123

Post by nvrspyx »

DCKing wrote: post #107
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> STOP USING google SEARCH! USE DUCKDUCKGO! I want to stop using Google, but please realize that DuckDuckGo is only competitive with Google if English is your only language (maybe even only if you're American?). There are loads and loads of people on HN for whom DDG is a poor experience. In my experience DDG is extremely poor for localized results, especially those in other languages than English. Previously I recomm…

____

I have no recommendation anymore

____

Maybe searx.me is an option. Although, you’re out of luck for Safari on iOS.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#124

Post by lern_too_spel »

superkuh wrote: post #96
bytematic wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly, use google amp and get higher rankings and it can increase your traffic by hundreds to thousands to millions. I hate it but its how it works

Higher rankings and google will preload the amp page they have and their servers for the amp link. That's why it is a tiny bit faster. It has nothing to do with the amp spec itself. It's faster because google is abusing it's monopoly search position to pre-load.

> google is abusing it's monopoly search position to pre-load.

How is that abusing their monopoly search position? Abusing their monopoly search position would be making publishers integrate directly with them to enable preload, like Apple News. Instead, they ask publishers to serve documents that can safely be prerendered, and all their competitors get to (and do!) consume those documents as well to enable safe prerendering from their own sites.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#125

Post by idoubtit »

brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome.

I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google.

> STOP USING google SEARCH!

While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends and relatives. My experience is that searching in any language but English gives very poor results. Other patterns also need to be redirected to another search engine, so it's not a a smooth migration.

My estimates are that 50% of my searches are for DDG, 25% for Google, and 25% for others (Bing, Qwant), not counting specialized searches like Wikipedia. That is enough to prevent being profiled.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#126

Post by elbrian »

idoubtit wrote: post #125
brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I do not use Chrome, but I don't think Firefox is awesome. While I use FF, partly for moral reasons, my experience is average and I saw many flaws and bugs. I prefer the features of Vivaldi, which is based on Chromium, but does not phone home to Google. > STOP USING google SEARCH! While my default search engine is Duck Duck Go, I don't recommend it to friends a…

> I saw many flaws and bugs.

Can you tell us about (or link us to) some of the many bugs you found in Firefox?

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#128

Post by hgoel »

AdmiralAsshat wrote: post #49
Mirioron wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Stop using chrome. Honestly, wtf?! Firefox is awesome. I think plenty of people have found Mozilla to have made some poor decisions over the years. It feels as though you have to choose between two options that aren't great, so is there a point in switching? Take the add ons situation. At least on Chrome I can run my own add ons.

I suppose my feeling is that this is the same kind of reductive reasoning behind the "same thing, both sides" mentality of American politics. Candidate A: Multiple accusations of bribery, frequently posts racist/sexist/Anti-Semitic/Islamophobic memes on his Twitter account, and sponsored multiple pieces of reprehensible legislation during his tenure in office. Candidate B: Refuses to tip more than 10%, ever. One seem…

I find it funny that you don't realize that you just did the very thing you're accusing Americans of.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#129

Post by pduan »

brianzelip wrote: post #23

Here's one great takeaway: > Treat the cause: Third-party requests slow down the web > ... > - Google owns 7 of the top 10 most popular third-party calls > ... > So you can see why there must be some kind of internal struggle at Google. They understand the value of a faster web but they also cannot go after the main cause of the slow web. And this is how technology such as AMP gets invented and makes things worse. It…

I tried DDG for a day on my phone. I follow stocks and will often enter "[ticker] stock" and Google search shows me that nice chart at the top.

DDG doesn't have anything like that and forces you to click into a financial website.

I had to switch back. If it added that widget, I'd probably make the switch full time.

Re: How to fight back against Google AMP as a web user and a web developer

#130

Post by wmf »

RobertRoberts wrote: post #2

I think there needs to be a real alternate solution from Google for longer term change. (if Google wants to stay relevant) Can they just penalize slow/large file size sites in their index? This seems like the underlying goal behind AMP and Chrome's Lighthouse (site audit tool) any way. This would make a lot of sites fast in the next couple months. But maybe Google doesn't really want that?

W3C is working on neutral/non-locked-in replacements for AMP like feature policies and Web Packaging but standards take years to deploy.
Post reply on HN