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An update on YC China

blog.ycombinator.com

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Re: An update on YC China

#121

Post by mirimir »

harimau777 wrote: post #107
plntd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtue signaling doesn't work in business. Should yc do any business in the US which is mired in illegal wars and regime change operation all over the world? What about Saudi arabia? Should silicon valley and traditional media give up the billions in Saudi investment? Every major economic player is evil in some form or another. And the parallel with china isn't nazi Germany. It's with 19th century US.

The US certainly has its problems, but I don't think it's fair to draw a moral equivalence with what's happening in China.

The US did invade Iraq, not that long ago. Hundreds of thousands died.

Re: An update on YC China

#122

Post by Veedrac »

The response to this is unfortunate. Consider the run-on effects it will have on other companies that the primary response to YC pulling out of China is negativity. Requiring companies to stake everything on an action like this only serves to discourage any of them from acting.

YC did the right thing here, the comments should reflect that.

Re: An update on YC China

#123

Post by bigpumpkin »

harimau777 wrote: post #113
bigpumpkin wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it's reasonable to stick with what YC knows best: Startups in the US. Perhaps this will be an opportunity to use the capital that would've been directed to China for American startups. I am also encouraged they are still funding Chinese companies and have a nuanced approach to China in this highly politically charged environment that reminds me of McCarthyism.

Can you explain how opposition to China's human rights violations are comparable to McCarthyism?

Oppositions to China's human rights violations does not equal to a blanket opposition to cooperation or involvement with all things Chinese. Doing so only highlights a biased view that is highly prevalent in our government today that is precisely reminiscent of McCarthyism.

Indeed one does not need to look far for such sentiments:

"The Chinese aren’t smarter than we are. They don’t work harder than we do.

They CHEAT." -Lindsey Graham

https://twitter.com/LindseyGrahamSC/status/11664531583082086...

"At one point during the dinner, Trump noted of an unnamed country that the attendee said was clearly China, “almost every student that comes over to this country is a spy.” " -Donald Trump

"FBI Is 'Harassing' Some Chinese Citizens Says Academic Group" https://www.wvxu.org/post/fbi-harassing-some-chinese-citizen...

Re: An update on YC China

#124

Post by skybrian »

colechristensen wrote: post #106
yumraj wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While I completely agree with you, YC is a private organization and not a political one. The above message allows everyone to save face while getting the job done. YC doesn't need to say anything beyond this.

That is exactly the problem. Saving face. Causing PRC to lose face is the only way to stop them outside a war which nobody wants. If American companies started cutting ties and explicitly calling out their behavior it would make a real difference.

1. PRC loses face.

2. ??? (Does not include war.)

3. New Chinese government takes control.

I don't think anyone knows how to do what you want. Just because a problem is important doesn't mean it has a solution.

Re: An update on YC China

#126

Post by Aeolun »

rl3 wrote: post #117
colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

> ...until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters. I'm afraid a single carrier battle group wouldn't be much of a deterrent these days. The US no longer has naval overmatch in that region. Barring any gross incompetence on PLA-N's part, or the US having highly classified tricks up its sleeve, USN would need several fleets to achieve anything but a pyrrhic victory in such a conflict.[0] I oth…

Not to mention that the whole fleet would be utterly useless against all the land based missile systems that would target them if it ever came to it.

I’m sure they can stop some of it but eventually they’ll just run out of supplies.

I think the only way to do something like that is by going all-in.

Re: An update on YC China

#127

Post by Aeolun »

Veedrac wrote: post #122

The response to this is unfortunate. Consider the run-on effects it will have on other companies that the primary response to YC pulling out of China is negativity. Requiring companies to stake everything on an action like this only serves to discourage any of them from acting. YC did the right thing here, the comments should reflect that.

Maybe it’s a bit like the HK extradition bill retraction. Too little, and too late.

Re: An update on YC China

#128

Post by RomanBob »

colechristensen wrote: post #80

I would expect more, and more direct language. Doing business with a fascist state or in a fascist state is deplorable. The message should be loud and clear. China today shares many parallels with Germany in the 1930s. There needs to be open frank opposition because embarrassing them is the only way to stop them until the US is willing to park an aircraft carrier group in HK waters.

In the US, as I go through the airport, I am physically violated routinely for my 'security'.

All of the data I transmit are recorded, for the agencies to go through them, if not now, then later, when they figured out how.

People who don't obey the leftist narrative are cancelled, have their jobs terminated, and so on.

China has always been independent. They pride themselves on that. Taking away investment money isn't going to influence them.

If you want to influence somebody, first you understand them, then you build a friendship and rapport with them, and then you influence them. Turning off the phone does the opposite.

Re: An update on YC China

#129

Post by zlei »

harimau777 wrote: post #107
plntd wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Virtue signaling doesn't work in business. Should yc do any business in the US which is mired in illegal wars and regime change operation all over the world? What about Saudi arabia? Should silicon valley and traditional media give up the billions in Saudi investment? Every major economic player is evil in some form or another. And the parallel with china isn't nazi Germany. It's with 19th century US.

The US certainly has its problems, but I don't think it's fair to draw a moral equivalence with what's happening in China.

Chinese citizen here.

I guess you're implying that certain bad things are happening in China. Do you really live in China and see those things happen, or just hear about them from the media?

And is it possible that some of the media in US are inhonest? Just as there're inhonest media in China.

I'm not fighting you on this topic; just don't understand why there's so much hatred towards our country.

Re: An update on YC China

#130

Post by Aeolun »

noobermin wrote: post #52
SandersAK wrote: post #45

Personally I was really disappointed when YC opened up shop in China - to me it really revealed a Profits over People approach and was pretty brazen at the time. Happy to see (for whatever reason) that they're recommitting to communities that (at least on the surface) don't support fascist overtures.

Echoing another poster, people and individuals who are Chinese are not their government. You shouldn't equate working with Chinese individuals and talent as a tacit support of their government.

Is it like that? I’m sure it’s true in some cases, but I have the feeling Chinese people are often much more their government than otherwise similar people in other countries.

Of course, all that’s based on hearsay, so who knows what the reality is.

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