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Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

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Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#121

Post by BurningFrog »

msbarnett wrote: post #75
BurningFrog wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a topless photograph posted by advocates for an equal right for both men and women to be topless in public is clearly political speech. Sure, but you can state the same opinion with words, and not get censored. If certain opinions are forbidden from being expressed, it's a very different thing.

> Sure, but you can state the same opinion with words, and not get censored Sure, but that is in no sense what “free speech” means, so we should stop pretending that “free speech” is what Facebook is offering.

The core of free speech is definitely the right to express any opinion, no matter how offensive.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#122

Post by gherkinnn »

edoceo wrote: post #113
gherkinnn wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite as poisonous as other places. And some people actually post nice stuff. It’s what you make of it and harder to go to shit.

I remember when folk said that about FB vs the toxic platforms of those days

Maybe a descent in to darkness is inevitable. We’ll see.

In the mean time, let’s also take a look at the dynamics of group chats.

Their whitelist and closed off nature seems to work very well indeed.

A new set of customs and etiquette is being developed regarding who is invited, how does one exit such a group with grace, how do you remove someone? Maybe just make a new one without the annoying party?

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#123

Post by chroma »

semiotagonal wrote: post #45
root_axis wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are you suggesting that the laws should be changed to limit the political freedom of some companies? If so, what would be your criteria for determining which companies this would apply to?

When they're so big that no competition can challenge them. My personal opinion is that Facebook should be broken up, but social media remain unregulated, since a ban on lies only rewards the most skilled liars, whose statements can fool the evaluators.

> When they're so big that no competition can challenge them.

That's what people said about MySpace before Facebook. It's also what people said about IBM, Microsoft, AOL, Nokia, and Kodak.

Big companies have a hard time changing direction. They also tend to be more risk averse, causing them to coast on their brand and network effects. Eventually they're usurped by smaller companies that take more risks and innovate better.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#124

Post by nlh »

discordance wrote: post #50

I’m more interested in why Facebook is marketing their platform to be about free speech. Is it a defensive move against potential regulation? - e.g. “if you regulate us, you’re taking away peoples right to free Speech”

I think that’s exactly right. The rhetoric about “breaking up big tech” is hitting close to home, and this is their positioning a defense.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#125

Post by twic »

chrisseaton wrote: post #93
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex attracts eyeballs too though it's a bit more difficult to sell Kraft Cheese Singles using sex.

I think they're just called 'Kraft Singles' - they aren't cheese, even by American definitions!

"Kraft: for singles you'll always swipe right on"

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#126

Post by twic »

smileysteve wrote: post #83
Mountain_Skies wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sex attracts eyeballs too though it's a bit more difficult to sell Kraft Cheese Singles using sex.

Thinks of European orange juice commercials

Orange soft drink, albeit made with real fruit, rather than orange juice.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#127

Post by littlestymaar »

bhupy wrote: post #69

Any form of media that earns its profit from viewership and selling advertising, including broadcast and cable news and news radio, is optimized for outrage. That's what attracts the eyeballs. The "algorithmic" part is irrelevant.

I agree with you, but the “algorithmic” just takes it to another level: instead of having a few channels targeted toward a bunch of groups, the targeting is at the individual level.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#128

Post by mancerayder »

discordance wrote: post #50

I’m more interested in why Facebook is marketing their platform to be about free speech. Is it a defensive move against potential regulation? - e.g. “if you regulate us, you’re taking away peoples right to free Speech”

It might just be plain old marketing, as many people do sense a tightening of censorship (always, always with good intentions, never otherwise), combined with a declining usage.

It's PR for one reason or another, as individual rights have never been the company's top priority.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#129

Post by decasteve »

bhupy wrote: post #69

Any form of media that earns its profit from viewership and selling advertising, including broadcast and cable news and news radio, is optimized for outrage. That's what attracts the eyeballs. The "algorithmic" part is irrelevant.

The algorithmic part enhances the amplification. It further optimizes the outrage in a calculated way that was previously more heuristically applied. In my opinion in adds a degree of psychological manipulation that goes beyond persuasive advertising but uses personal information to tailor messages that evoke what is often detrimental to the viewer.

Facebook’s free speech is akin to aversion therapy in A Clockwork Orange.

Re: Facebook isn’t free speech, it’s algorithmic amplification optimized for outrage

#130

Post by root_axis »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #112
root_axis wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I appreciate the snark, but I'll just say anyway that I'm actually asking what are the factors that determine when a company is "too big"?

In all honesty, the only way a company like Facebook gets this big is through the support of the larger society that sustains them. The Internet itself is a product of that society. Everyone with a stake in that society is at least entitled to an opinion, if not an outright vote, regarding how the company operates. This is a reflection of a larger point, which is that any sufficiently-dominant corporation is indistin…

I don't disagree with much of anything you've written there, but corporate dominance has been an issue for a long time and the impact of social media companies is trivial compared to the impact of companies that e.g. kill citizens with addictive drugs for profit, withhold life saving drugs and medical treatment for profit, hoard and reserve huge swaths of residential property for rent seeking, contaminate the water table and arable land for natural gas etc and the political proclivities of these companies is never scrutinized outside of partisan politics. I'm not saying that Facebook isn't also a problem, but it seems very much like bikeshedding to tie ourselves into knots writing new laws so that people have the right to share low-effort memes on Facebook's servers when there are so many real problems that could be solved with new laws.
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