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Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

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Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#121
post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When someone says they want to work in Perl6/Raku, they likely have vastly different problems than someone using Erlang/Elixer. There is overlap of course (both general purpose), but I can't imagine using Erlang for scripting, while Raku is first class here.

I'm trying to understand, what kind of scripting requires first-class concurrency that isn't fulfilled by say Python?

I'm guessing because Python's concurrency relies on the Global Interpreter Lock. Although I think concurrent.futures might address that. Haven't worked with python concurrency libraries in a bit.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#123
post #101

This is great news both for Perl and for Raku. I will probably bother to take a serious look at Raku now, sometime, if anything just for curiosity. Why not before? I have no good answer for that. But my main worry about it is that I suspect it has brought along with it the community's dysfunctional fascination with over-the-top cleverness and arcane constructs. I'll probably stick with Python and Perl 5 on an as-need…

Perl has pretty much coalesced on Moo(se) for this, though it's not core yet. And yes, Raku has a thorough core object system.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#124
post #46
post #2

This has been a huge deal for the Perl community. First, it was thought that Perl 6 would be the replacement for Perl 5. But it was long ago recognized that there was no clear upgrade path from Perl 5 to Perl 6, so it was agreed that Perl 6 was a "sister" language to Perl 5 rather than the successor. Except that many people expected that Perl 6 would be the replacement, so that stalled many projects. So an "alias" fo…

> Larry has now agreed with the change and Perl 6 will be renamed to "raku" and Perl 5, which has regular, major releases every year, will now be able to simply be "Perl" and be free to continue on its own way. I hope that doesn't mean that when Perl needs a major number version change again, they'll chose 6. It would be pretty confusing to have 2 Perl 6.

A similar sort of situation happened with PHP which is why there is no PHP 6 -- it jumped straight from PHP 5 to 7.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#125
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW: I'm unclear why people continue to use Perl at all, I moved on in 2011. Because it works. Scripts/software that works does not experience bit rot. As long as it works, people will continue to use it. Edit: OK, fine. It seems the downvoters are convinced that the code does in fact experience bit rot, and spoils with time. Probably like fish.

Sure but there's a reason that development has moved off of Perl.

For people who are curious as to why people moved to Python. Some will say because college kids are taught Python, but I think that is a side effect.

Perl is an old language, pre OOP. It's a language from the 90s, when everyone was hacking together code not knowing what the future would be like. There is a lack of organization. Perl is like C in syntax, features, and in speed. Python is like C++. Every failing you can find in Perl stems from it being a PP language first, from dirty code to kids not learning it in college.

Raku attempts to address every failing of Perl, yet be better than Python. If it succeeds, who knows, but I hope it gets at least a chance to make something of itself.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#126

I'm amazed that Perl is still around. I personally find it the least readable language that I've ever used, and that includes a lot of languages. But some people really seem to love it, for reasons a bit beyond me.

How familiar are you with Perl, and how much have you used it?

Most of the anti-Perl comments I've heard have been from people who really didn't know it very well, if at all.

Some of them might have glanced at some Perl code and saw a dense regex and dismissed it as "line noise". Well, yeah, if you don't know regexes you would be forgiven for thinking it was line noise, but if you did know regexes it should look no more like line noise than a similarly dense regex in any other language.

For a long time now, Perl has allowed regexes to be commented. Commenting dense regexes and splitting them up in to short regexes assigned to judiciously named variables is just good style in any language, and has been the norm in Perl for a long time. Furthermore, modern Perl style guidelines advise code to be written with verbose, English words instead of ancient Perl one-character special variable names.

So setting aside both dense, uncommented regexes and ancient single-letter special variable names, both of which have been recognized as poor style in Perl for decades now, I'm really not sure what the complaints about Perl readability are about. To me it looks really no uglier than any other mainstream language, and one could easily make the argument that any other mainstream language you care to name is uglier in some of its own ways.

If you include non-mainstream languages, some languages which have a lot of fans here on HN are arguably a lot less readable than Perl to someone only familiar with traditional Algol-style languages. In particular, I'm thinking of Forth and Haskell. Yet you rarely hear complaints on here about their readability.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>including being one of the few dynamic languages with a working concurrency model... Elixir is worth a look. It's a pretty productive little language with a great concurrency model.

When someone says they want to work in Perl6/Raku, they likely have vastly different problems than someone using Erlang/Elixer. There is overlap of course (both general purpose), but I can't imagine using Erlang for scripting, while Raku is first class here.

I guess it depends on what you're comfortable in? I myself have tons of Elixir scripts that I use to automate much of my life. It's replaced ruby as my go-to for one-off scripts.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> FWIW: I'm unclear why people continue to use Perl at all Great language, large library on cpan, great eco system, people enjoy using it, they have a large code base that's run fine for decades. Choose 1 or more. > I moved on in 2011 You're right, it's all about you and what you do...

No, it's all about evangelizing and recruiting as many other people as possible to go down with the sinking ship you've committed yourself to. The Evangelism Hole: Getting People Back to Perl http://act.yapc.eu/lpw2014/talk/5758

It only sinks when people stop contributing to it. Which is a trend, but so far not a fatal one.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#129
post #101

This is great news both for Perl and for Raku. I will probably bother to take a serious look at Raku now, sometime, if anything just for curiosity. Why not before? I have no good answer for that. But my main worry about it is that I suspect it has brought along with it the community's dysfunctional fascination with over-the-top cleverness and arcane constructs. I'll probably stick with Python and Perl 5 on an as-need…

Why not before? Because Perl is you know, dead. Jokes aside, it's a pretty nice language apart from the !$double .@sigils. If I'd switch from Perl 5, I'd probably switch to Ruby, as Perl 6 oops Raku is quite slow.

Re: Larry Wall has approved renaming Perl 6 to Raku

#130

This should have happened with Python 2/3.

The Python situation had a major difference: the current maintainers of Python 2 and Python 3 are the same, and Python 2 is still intended to be EOLd. A clean break would surely have avoided many problems but it's hard to speculate how it would have gone.
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