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Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

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Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#121
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And goto being used for error handling is pretty stock standard across most C codebases I’ve worked on or seen over the years, so I’m not sure what the particular gripe is there

Since when is "we do it all the time" the same as "it's a good thing"?

Since when are standard practices the same as "it's a good thing"?

Well written code is the best code. Some well written code uses goto. Some not well written code doesn't use goto

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand people who want to remove choice. Don't want the ability to install apps from untrustworthy sources? Don't enable the option that gives you that ability.

The position is self-defeating. How can you hold it and at the same time advocate against their choice to use a system that doesn't have the ability to install apps from untrustworthy sources? The availability of such systems is obviously an increase in available choice, not a decrease.

Unless I'm misunderstanding your point, haven't you just rephrased Karl Popper's "paradox of tolerance?" Advocating freedom to create walled gardens in mainstream computing is what's self-defeating.

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#123
The bug is scaringly easy to trigger. It just takes four system calls, none of which are niche or take unusual arguments.

    int fd, epfd;
    struct epoll_event event = { .events = EPOLLIN };

    fd = open("/dev/binder0", O_RDONLY);
    epfd = epoll_create(1000);
    epoll_ctl(epfd, EPOLL_CTL_ADD, fd, &event);
    ioctl(fd, BINDER_THREAD_EXIT, NULL);

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#124
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know the reasons behind that policy, but I'd guess with the exploit already being used, there is less incentive to keep silent about the issue. The opposite is true: putting more pressure on the vendors to provide patches, and disclosing any malicious actions that are already underway as soon as possible

They could tell vendors about the issue earlier without telling the rest of the world earlier though, can't they?

Well, the longer that vulnerabilities are kept secret, the longer that users are unable to take any action to protect themselves, and the less incentive that vendors have to roll out fixes quickly and to prevent vulnerabilities in the first place. See the Project Zero disclosure FAQ: https://googleprojectzero.blogspot.com/p/vulnerability-discl...

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#125

To me, the biggest part of this story is: 1. Over two years ago, this was apparently detected automatically by the syzkaller kernel fuzzer, and automatically reported on its public mailing list. [1] 2. Over a year and a half ago, it was apparently fixed in the upstream kernel. [2] 3. It was apparently never merged back to various "stable" kernels, leading to the recent CVE. [3] So you might read that and think "Ok, p…

The Linux kernel is a glaring example software malfunction due to its combination of moderate defect density and incredible extent, along with a culture intolerant of competence. People who became subsystem maintainers because they happened to be hanging around a mailing list in the 90s are still gatekeepers of important subsystems despite their now-decades-long records of continuous malfeasance. Patches that demonst…

You’re wrong that no one should ever use goto. Goto is a perfectly fine control flow operator IF AND WHEN you use it in a highly structured, well-understood way. This is how systems programming is done. A “goto cleanup” section at the end of a function is the best way to do exit-on-error in C, hands down.

I hate that people keep peddling this nonsense because they wrote a little C and read a headline about “goto considered harmful”, which is a gross oversimplification and a BAD piece of “wisdom” that for some reason won’t die. This is how serious handling in C is done. Please stop repeating this tired trope.

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#126
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And goto being used for error handling is pretty stock standard across most C codebases I’ve worked on or seen over the years, so I’m not sure what the particular gripe is there

Since when is "we do it all the time" the same as "it's a good thing"?

goto for error handling is not just "freeform anything goes goto". It's a very specific idiom, being an "error" label and a bunch of "if (resource) free(resource)" statements at the end of the function. It is essentially analogous to a common use case of Go's defer. Typically an accepted pattern when dealing with many resources and possible exit points. Prevalent in I/O heavy code.

Different ballgame from the subject of Dijkstra's manifesto.

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>extremely inconvenient. Maybe. I'd argue "extremely". It does suck, for instance, that Discord as a Flatpak can only access a fixed subset of $HOME directories. But it can't scan your machine's processes like ordinary Discord can (to report the game you're playing), which is a privacy gain. The security (and portability) advantages of sandboxing/containerizing apps may outweigh the hassle of the workarounds/memory i…

There'd be a case for sandboxing proprietary software, for sure.

With the recent raft of vulnerabilities such as Spectre/Meltdown and Rowhammer, there's an argument to be made that maybe, just maybe, running "untrusted" code on the same physical machine as "trusted" code is fundamentally insecure. Not just because of those particular vulnerabilities, but because they all seem to point to some sort of axiom - when two pieces of code share physical state (CPU, RAM etc), you cannot ever be 100% certain that they do not affect each other in some subtle way. And even if the hardware itself was perfect, it's not like you can practically prove all the code on a modern machine correct and flawless.

So maybe, instead of trying to somehow make it safe to run untrusted software on our machines, we should focus on making sure all the code that runs on our machines is trusted - not in the sense of "proved correct", but in the sense of "written without malicious intent". If you regard Discord scanning your processes as an unacceptable invasion of privacy, and it bothers you that there's no way to turn that off, perhaps avoiding Discord is a better solution than trying to sandbox it.

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand people who want to remove choice. Don't want the ability to install apps from untrustworthy sources? Don't enable the option that gives you that ability.

The position is self-defeating. How can you hold it and at the same time advocate against their choice to use a system that doesn't have the ability to install apps from untrustworthy sources? The availability of such systems is obviously an increase in available choice, not a decrease.

> How can you hold it and at the same time advocate against their choice to use a system that doesn't have the ability to install apps from untrustworthy sources? The availability of such systems is obviously an increase in available choice, not a decrease.

Saying "doesn't have the ability to install apps from other sources" is the same as saying "doesn't give you the choice to install apps from other sources" -- it's removing a choice.

If you don't want to install apps that aren't approved by Apple then... don't. You could choose not to even if your ability to choose was not restricted.

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#129

This is another great chance to root your phone and take complete control of what you should rightly own.

In Android land you can buy a phone where the bootloader can be unlocked and directly flash a pre-rooted ROM rather than relying on people exploiting security vulnerabilities like this.

But will it have Google play services? (and pass safety-net checks)

Re: Google, Xiaomi, and Huawei affected by zero-day flaw that unlocks root access

#130

“It’s advisable that you don’t install apps from non-trustworthy sources, ” Unpopular opinion but this is why I prefer walled garden apple for my family then alternative.

Apple can have their walled garden of scrutinized apps. Why not allow other gardens? How about my own garden? Why not theo's garden?
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