Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency • Hacker News Board

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#121

Post by alwillis » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 4:54 AM UTC

colechristensen wrote: post #89

foobarian wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> unless you are doing something really illicit. Actually I wonder if the intelligence agencies of the world like the cryptocurrencies because it lets them find illicit activity more easily.

Nothing like an indestructible globally replicated register of your transactions to help make yourself discoverable

Wasabi and other modern bitcoin wallets run over Tor and have built-in features (like CoinJoin, coin control, etc.) to defeat blockchain analysis companies: https://docs.wasabiwallet.io/why-wasabi/

There are also decentralized, Tor-encrypted exchanges to buy and sell bitcoin like Bisq: https://bisq.network/.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#122

Post by travisoneill1 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 4:58 AM UTC

oceanplexian wrote: post #77

colechristensen wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

+1 for the first and second points, but I think it will play out much differently. Facebook will try to defy regulators, but I think the SEC will stomp on them, hard. It will end up a hybrid battle in the courts and Congress between libertarians, a few flavors of privacy advocates, US regulatory concerns, and ultimately land on US power projection concerns. I think the US will eventually shape the law and regulatory…

Sure Crypto backed by a particular company might not happen, but I don’t see BTC and similar P2P blockchain currencies going anywhere. It’s about as easy to stop as digital piracy, which is to say in other words physically impossible to regulate.

You don't have to stop the blockchain. You just have to prevent the tokens from being exchanged for dollars which is a lot easier.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#123

Post by adjkant » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:05 AM UTC

xlc0212 wrote: post #111

tanilama wrote: post #80

Libra can be a good idea, but probably not from Facebook. What Facebook lacks among Big Techs the most, is public trust. In an era where anything from Big Techs are meticulously scrutinized, something that seems to aim to bypass government regulation is probably the last thing people want.

What I don’t understand is, the whole point of using blockchain technology is it doesn’t matter who creates it, as long as the code does what it intend to do, there are no trust needed. (Assuming Libra eventually actually become a decentralized network)

That assumption is huge. The other problem is that this tech doesn't really solve a problem most people have, so there's no motivation against waiting for a different company to try this. Heck they could even use the same code and no one would care probably. But so long as the Facebook brand is on it, it will go nowhere today.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#124

Post by adjkant » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:07 AM UTC

pxtail wrote: post #14

Well, well, well suddenly it looks like everyone who is making money thanks to current status quo is withdrawing from initiative/opposing it. Probably it means that FB is doing something right... Question is if FB is strong/clever enough to keep moving forward.

Or that no one trusts Facebook and companies realize that, and no one really thinks they need Libra?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#125

Post by petre » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:08 AM UTC

jcampbell1 wrote: post #108

csomar wrote: post #12

Here are some wild predictions I'm making + Many (or potentially all of the backers except Facebook) will withdraw from the alliance. + Facebook/Zuckerberg will defy the gov.s and launch Libra. + Libra might not dominate the world, but it'll be a success (at least a niche success) and it'll eat up some of the marketshare of these financial institutions. I think Zuckerberg has come (or already know) to the realization…

Libra is meant to be the m-pesa of the world. It is funny that the US government and CIA haven’t figured out how much Libra will offer US hegemony. At some point Sandberg will explain it to the political dopes and Libra will happen. That day is not today. I don’t have time to explain this comment, but I am probably missing something in my thinking.

And that's exactly why it would be regulated by other countries. Like France who announced it would block it and then also talked Germany into doing the same.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#126

Post by antpls » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:15 AM UTC

dao- wrote: post #72

omfgwhat wrote: post #66

Surprising since David Marcus, the head of Libra, was once the CEO of Paypal.

Is it in PayPal's interest that Libra succeeds? It seems that they would be competitors. They might just have backed it strategically to somehow have a stake in it if it takes off big time. Given the pushback they could now bank on the whole thing failing instead.

The point of the cryptocurrency was to decentralize Libra amongst several actors, such as Visa, Master Card, Paypal, etc

If done, Libra would have been the common interest of all those actors. That was the goal of the project.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#127

Post by kardos » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:19 AM UTC

justapassenger wrote: post #25

MereInterest wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Popular with people who are looking for another pyramid scheme to invest in, perhaps.

Libra is nothing like bitcoin - it doesn't have investment potential - it's 100% backed by basket of fiat money.

So it's like Tether?

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#128

Post by bcrosby95 » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:20 AM UTC

manquer wrote: post #120

DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Governments are as untrustworthy as Facebook but more scary as they have a monopoly on violence and can take away your life. That’s an extreme and reductionist position - and I feel it’s an incorrect position. The state does not have a monopoly on violence - certainly not in practice, and in most democracies today the state is expressly forbidden from using any kind of physical force (domestically, at least) except…

State has absolute monopoly on legal violence. Expect for very few exceptions like defending your home , self defence etc, you are even not allowed even show force let alone act violently. State does not need to use violence in stable democracies they just have make sure ppl know they can to get everyone in line. Also violence is not always physical. Threatening incarceration/ social humiliation / jail time for parol…

A monopoly on legal violence isn't about only the state legally being able to be violent, but it's also the state being able to outline who can legally become violent and in which circumstances. Which would include things like outlining that you can defend your home - so this isn't really an exception to the statement.

I don't find the phrase all that compelling. What is legal in a given place is based upon the strongest coalition of people that cares about that place. When speaking at this level of social organization its basically might makes right. A state with no police and no military has a monopoly on nothing.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#129

Post by speedplane » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

xlc0212 wrote: post #111

tanilama wrote: post #80

Libra can be a good idea, but probably not from Facebook. What Facebook lacks among Big Techs the most, is public trust. In an era where anything from Big Techs are meticulously scrutinized, something that seems to aim to bypass government regulation is probably the last thing people want.

What I don’t understand is, the whole point of using blockchain technology is it doesn’t matter who creates it, as long as the code does what it intend to do, there are no trust needed. (Assuming Libra eventually actually become a decentralized network)

> the whole point of using blockchain technology is it doesn’t matter who creates it, as long as the code does what it intend to do, there are no trust needed

That may have been the original point of blockchain, but control over money is still a pretty political issue. Accordingly, anyone who creates or transacts currency, regardless if done by fiat or mathematics, will necessarily wade into local political and social restrictions.

Bitcoin is impressive technology and definitely brought a nice jab to government monetary control, but it does not seem to be able to deliver a knock-out. No government will give up control over monetary policy without a fight. If governments can't control bitcoin directly, they'll do so indirectly (making them difficult to cash-out, blocking IPs, straight-up making it illegal).

It's yet another example of tech's beautifully orchestrated high-minded ideals, that come crashing down when they meet real power and reality.

Re: Paypal Withdraws from Facebook's Libra Cryptocurrency

#130

Post by dboreham » Sat, Oct 05, 2019, 5:21 AM UTC

opportune wrote: post #70

eternalban wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You forgot to add that many of us suspect Google and Facebook are outsourced DoD projects.

That would be the best kept secret of all time

In the beginning...1993 or so, before Altavista, everyone I knew doing web search came from TLA contractors where they had been long working on similar projects.