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Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

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Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#121

Post by eduren »

subjectsigma wrote: post #120
eduren wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agree. I love the design behind the Westworld folding tablets. I don't see myself jumping aboard the train until we get at least a little bit closer to that form factor.

There's an interesting subtlety in Westworld devices that I didn't notice until now, though - they're insanely durable. Dust, blood, hard impacts, slamming the device closed, etc don't seem to damage or impede them at all which simply wouldn't be true of real devices. I think foldable devices are inherently more fragile than smartphones which are already too fragile IMO and thus they'll never work, but few people see…

Definitely. In order for WW style tablets, I think the biggest hurdles would be material science.

It's also sci-fi and the rule of cool. If someone wanted to parody WW, then a fun scene would be the tech support at HQ. Imagine seeing main characters treating them as disposable and regularly having to pick up new ones.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#122

Post by untog »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #116
mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

I think the future is less/no screen. Typing on these folding phones seems like a worse experience. Typing at all isn't really natural, and neither is staring at planar, glowing glass. I think the future is conversational computing. I don't own an Alexa/HomePod/etc (yet... maybe some open source on prem thing at some point), but I think that's where the puck is moving. It's just that today their capabilities are some…

Strongly disagree with this. As someone who does own a number of Google Home devices at home and uses Siri on my phone... voice is a terrible interface.

For one, there is zero discoverability. I can ask Google today's weather. I can ask tomorrow's weather. I cannot ask yesterday's weather. Leaving aside why that would be (I would find it useful to know that it's X degrees hotter/cooler than yesterday) there's no way for me to know that without asking. It's the audio equivalent of fumbling around on a keyboard in a pitch black room. Just imagine placing a food order. It's going to have to read a menu to you and you're going to have to remember it all. No amount of tech improvement is going to change that fundamental fact.

Secondly, you can't multi-task. Or have more than one person using it simultaneously. Right now my wife and I might be looking at our phones at the same time, perhaps looking stuff up, maybe tapping out an e-mail. We'd have to go to separate rooms to do that.

But if I want to know today's weather or play a song, it works fine. As long as it recognises my voice correctly and there isn't too much background noise.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#123

Post by davnicwil »

spdionis wrote: post #117
sixstringtheory wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the future is less/no screen. Typing on these folding phones seems like a worse experience. Typing at all isn't really natural, and neither is staring at planar, glowing glass. I think the future is conversational computing. I don't own an Alexa/HomePod/etc (yet... maybe some open source on prem thing at some point), but I think that's where the puck is moving. It's just that today their capabilities are some…

Except when you can't reply to a message on your phone cause you don't want people around you to hear that. Let's be real, "conversational computing" may work in movies, but in reality you don't want people in the office or on the street hearing your interactions with your phone.

My thoughts too - it works in the home and at a push I can see it working for certain jobs, but it absolutely seems unworkable in public places.

But then I think again and wonder if maybe this is one of these things that seems unthinkable now but in 10-20 years, everyone everywhere will be doing it completely naturally, it's become part of the background noise of life, and nobody will care enough to really listen to what you're telling your computer to search for / do.

Yes on a silent train it might be awkward - but on the street I can honestly see it being fine, especially if attitudes and culture changes a bit as it's wont to do with new technology usage (see bluetooth headsets for a past example of this).

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#124

Post by belltaco »

legohead wrote: post #87

this looks way better than the Samsung Fold. if you haven't yet, watch a durability video on the Fold. the display is plastic and will get scratched from basically anything (even your fingernail). Microsoft's version has glass. also nice that it's using Android. but...how will I mount it in the car for GPS?

>but...how will I mount it in the car for GPS?

Just fold it?

https://andro4all.com/files/2019/10/Microsoft-Surface-Duo.jp...

I would get a bigger mount for the opened device though, maps are always nicer on bigger screens since you can see more.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#125

Post by sterlind »

eduren wrote: post #121
subjectsigma wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an interesting subtlety in Westworld devices that I didn't notice until now, though - they're insanely durable. Dust, blood, hard impacts, slamming the device closed, etc don't seem to damage or impede them at all which simply wouldn't be true of real devices. I think foldable devices are inherently more fragile than smartphones which are already too fragile IMO and thus they'll never work, but few people see…

Definitely. In order for WW style tablets, I think the biggest hurdles would be material science. It's also sci-fi and the rule of cool. If someone wanted to parody WW, then a fun scene would be the tech support at HQ. Imagine seeing main characters treating them as disposable and regularly having to pick up new ones.

Thin-film electronics would probably be the starting point. As far as I can tell, that industry is very concentrated on display, solar and "gimmick" electronics (think electronic tamper seals or marketing strategies.)

To make this device, you'd need: - A battery breakthrough (hard) - Flexible OLED and peripherals (easier) - Flexible chips (hard but optional) - High power efficiency or microfluidic cooling (hard depending on thickness.)

Depending on where you let the device be folded, if you had a small enough SoC, you could protect it from bending and hide it in the panel sections that don't have a seam. The trickier bit is raw power and thermals, which will be the bottleneck for the next few years.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#126

Post by smush »

GordonS wrote: post #101
BOBOTWINSTON wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm excited for two reasons. I find the ability to completely "close" my phone really appealing. It feels easier to ignore it, and the screens feel more protected to me. I can also only describe the second benefit as "its like two monitors". I can watch TV on one and respond to messages/browse on another. I use a Note8+ already, so big screens for watching crap are already my preference though.

Clamshell phones let you close your phone completely, and have been around for a long time. Actually, are they still a thing?

So Clamshell Android phones are a thing. The Freetel Mushashi is a T9-style Android phone with dual touch screens on either side.

Samsung has the Android W series phones which have a similar format.

Regarding the sibling comment, after the Droid 4 and the Motorola Photon Q, there has been a drought of physical keyboard landscape slider phones. Portrait sliders have been available for the Blackberry Priv and KeyOne/Key2, but aside from the soon-to-be-released Fxtec Pro1, not much landscape slider android phone action is going on.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#127

Post by gambiting »

sixstringtheory wrote: post #116
mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

I think the future is less/no screen. Typing on these folding phones seems like a worse experience. Typing at all isn't really natural, and neither is staring at planar, glowing glass. I think the future is conversational computing. I don't own an Alexa/HomePod/etc (yet... maybe some open source on prem thing at some point), but I think that's where the puck is moving. It's just that today their capabilities are some…

What are you going to watch your porn on without a screen?

Also, talking to any of those assistants is literally the worst imaginable mode of interaction with a computer, period. Touchscreens in cars are in close second place.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#128

Post by lonelappde »

gambiting wrote: post #127
sixstringtheory wrote: post #116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the future is less/no screen. Typing on these folding phones seems like a worse experience. Typing at all isn't really natural, and neither is staring at planar, glowing glass. I think the future is conversational computing. I don't own an Alexa/HomePod/etc (yet... maybe some open source on prem thing at some point), but I think that's where the puck is moving. It's just that today their capabilities are some…

What are you going to watch your porn on without a screen? Also, talking to any of those assistants is literally the worst imaginable mode of interaction with a computer, period. Touchscreens in cars are in close second place.

Headphones. Audio is a major part of porn, and audio porn is much healthier at night than video porn, because light makes you stay awake longer.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#129

Post by pjmlp »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #103
mwsfc wrote: post #77

Between this and the Samsung Fold it feels like we have entered into the netbook (form factor) era* void. We're past peak smartphone development and are in this space where manufacturers are stumbling around for the next "it" device but creating nothing that is truly revolutionary. Yes, there are "some" use cases where a larger screen on my mobile device would be useful…. But by-and-large I still want it to fit in my…

> Netbooks were low-powered mobile devices (basically mini laptops) that launched in 2007 and basically disappeared (as a viable market category) after the iPad and its kind were launched in 2010. Chromebooks are very much alive and well.

Chromebooks are an US specific phenomenon, hardly seen anywhere else in the world.

Re: Microsoft announces new Surface Duo phone

#130

Post by joombaga »

belltaco wrote: post #46
joombaga wrote: post #36

> The Surface Duo features two 5.6-inch displays that can rotate 360 degrees, allowing it to be fully unfolded as a miniature unfold to 8.3-inch tablet. Unless I'm misunderstanding, it seems like you wouldn't ever need more than 270 degrees.

Needs 360 degrees to get to this. https://andro4all.com/files/2019/10/Microsoft-Surface-Duo.jp... From this: https://livecenterimages.azureedge.net/livecenter-images/lci...

Ah okay thanks. I didn't realize you could close it with the screen inside.
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