Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says • Hacker News Board

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#121

Post by dmoy » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:35 AM UTC

gizmo686 wrote: post #53

dmoy wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To be fair on the last part, shadow ban can be an extremely efficient moderation tool, though for people caught up as false positive collateral damage it can really suck. This is true even in hackernews I would assume, certainly it is any other place I've moderated before.

On a free product, I have no problems with shadow bans. On a paid product, shadow bans seem like a pretty clear case of fraud.

Ah I've never used any of those apps I just sort of assumed they're free.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#122

Post by canada_dry » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:36 AM UTC

taneq wrote: post #38

bigwavedave wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ah yes, the only profession aside from medicine that exists to eradicate itself.

The goal of any consultancy should be to get your clients to the point where they no longer need you.

[Cough] Gov't consulting companies would like a word.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#123

Post by newnewpdro » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:38 AM UTC

echelon wrote: post #4

The FTC needs to come down hard on this. Extremely hard. This isn't just a trick, it's outright fraud. They're playing with people's emotions and not just giving them nothing - they're abusing people's most basic need of feeling loved. Think about how vulnerable people become when they're searching for love. And then this corporate giant comes in with an army of psychologists, A/B tests, and analysts to figure out ho…

I generally agree with what you're saying.

However, if you've ever used any of these sites with a profile in a sparsely populated rural zip code, it's a pretty grim situation and I can see how fake profiles could arguably make people feel better than having absolutely nothing to even swipe on.

If the fake profiles don't go beyond just filler status, i.e. they don't reply to messages and lead people on, it doesn't strike me as that big of a deal. It's just more like entertainment and time wasting than anything actually helping you find a mate. But if you live somewhere literally devoid of eligible candidates, it's not like the dating web site (or anything other than moving) can fix that.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#124

Post by beefield » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:45 AM UTC

chongli wrote: post #20

I think it's a fatal flaw in the dating site business model, to be honest. Their incentive is for you to stay on the site for as long as possible. If you could find a relationship quickly and then they would leave the site quickly. This would reduce the amount of ad and subscription revenue, in addition to reducing the size of the pool of "potential matches", discouraging those who have more trouble finding someone.

> I think it's a fatal flaw in the dating site business model, to be honest.

I think it is just one exhibit of the fatal flaw of the idea that shareholder value maximization is the correct objective of a corporation. The very original raison d'etre of limited libility was to enhance wellbeing of public, not shareholders. And for some reason that has been forgotten.

(No, I have no good solutions for proper corporate governance, but I still think acknowledging we have a problem is the first step.)

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#125

Post by liquidise » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:47 AM UTC

Former CTO of a multi-mllion user dating app. I am certain Match will claim plausible deniability here, the reality is such an argument would be a total farce.

While spam prevention is technically not a "solved" problem, simple and clever techniques in addition to shadow-banning go a long way. Once an account has sufficient activity, which for spammers takes anywhere from 30s - 4hr, even modest systems can confidently identify the vast majority.

A company like Match that has conglomerated other upstarts in the space surely has spammer identification systems far in excess of smaller apps. Yet somehow those competing apps often cite account authenticity as an advantage over Match. The Ashley Madison scandal exposed this business tactic. Match clearly followed suit and has been just-subtle-enough to evade legal action until now.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#126

Post by 05 » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:54 AM UTC

xyzzy_plugh wrote: post #102

jimmaswell wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dating apps are a failed idea. If you're a man and have any imperfections appearance-wise you'll go on these sites and get no responses. In college I did hundreds of swipes and sent a bunch of messages on OKC and got nothing because I wasn't a human Ken doll. I could've spent all day in the gym and gotten plastic surgery and spent hundreds on whatever wardrobe was in style but why do all that for people who can't app…

I'm sympathetic but I disagree they're a failed idea. Far from perfect, but I know plenty of folks with appearance imperfections that have had great success on dating sites -- some now married to their matches, with kids! Anecdotally, the most successful (in terms of turn around, partners, matches, dates, etc.) male I know is overweight, has poor hygiene, and is somewhat misogynistic. Conversely, I know perfectly han…

> If anything, they spend more time interacting with these apps in a less productive manner.

Only because their standards are set higher due to needing to filter the incoming stream of matches to a manageable drip of first dates. In the end, their outcome is better. Just like you would interact on LinkedIn 'in a less productive manner' being a rockstar developer @FAANG..

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#127

Post by solution3982 » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

hmate9 wrote: post #118

solution3982 wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's frustrating is that very many sites know of this method and simply trim the "+uniqueid" from a gmail.com address before inserting it into their database. Unfortunately, there is a mathematical theorem (greater idiot theorem) that makes it technically impossible to generate a new random string that becomes an inbox that goes to your inbox. How do I know that it's technically impossible? Because otherwise Gmail…

Wait, isn’t this exactly what Apple is doing with Sign in with Apple?

yes. But that doesn't mean it's possible, or Gmail would be doing it too. they have PhD's and stuff. (or used to).

so for sure it isn't possible for some reason, even if someone else is doing it.

what other explanation can there be? why would they just have a glaring security hole like that, allowing anyone you try to give a trackable email to with + to just remove it with a regex? It doesn't make sense. there must be some reason it can't work.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#128

Post by gnopgnip » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:57 AM UTC

1024core wrote: post #67

Back when I was single, I was on a dozen dating sites. It was frustrating as heck to keep getting led on by fake profiles. eHarmony is the worst: they actually sold my email address to spammers. How do I know this? I have my own domain, and use a unique (hard to guess) email address for each site I have to give an email address to. So it was trivial to nail eHarmony as the culprit. Someone has already linked to the O…

How does a respectful dating site make money if they don't charge consumers?

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#129

Post by dvfjsdhgfv » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 5:58 AM UTC

jdm2212 wrote: post #81

1024core wrote: post #67

Back when I was single, I was on a dozen dating sites. It was frustrating as heck to keep getting led on by fake profiles. eHarmony is the worst: they actually sold my email address to spammers. How do I know this? I have my own domain, and use a unique (hard to guess) email address for each site I have to give an email address to. So it was trivial to nail eHarmony as the culprit. Someone has already linked to the O…

I do the same thing with a gmail address -- just do myemail+uniqueid@gmail.com, because gmail drops everything after the + for routing the email but still tells you which address it was sent to.

This used to work a decade ago when spammers were clueless.

Re: Match.com Used Fake Ads to Swindle Users, F.T.C. Says

#130

Post by jborichevskiy » Thu, Sep 26, 2019, 6:00 AM UTC

noitsnot wrote: post #39

chongli wrote: post #20

I think it's a fatal flaw in the dating site business model, to be honest. Their incentive is for you to stay on the site for as long as possible. If you could find a relationship quickly and then they would leave the site quickly. This would reduce the amount of ad and subscription revenue, in addition to reducing the size of the pool of "potential matches", discouraging those who have more trouble finding someone.

The interesting thing is this is Hinge's business model but they have the problem of abandoned accounts sitting there instead of people deleting them for whatever reason.

I may be misremembering the specific app and timeline but I’m fairly sure Hinge sent me an email among the lines of “you look like you’re no longer active so we’re hiding your account” after a few days of inactivity.