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Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

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Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think they’re suggesting that everyone on earth has purposefully become a thief at one point, but that sometimes it just happens. I’ve definitely walked out of a supermarket with a bottle of water that I picked up while shopping and forgot to pay for - I still stole it, even if unintentionally.

How often do you unintentionally walk into someone’s unlocked house and steal something, though?

[deleted]

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#122

The video is a compelling demonstration of a design flaw, but I am always skeptical of lock opening displays that do not occur in a real-world application of the lock. Yeah, you ramsetted a lock. In a vise. Can you do that if it is dangling from a chain between two gate halves? Or would you bring out a bench and vise to your target? Ok, you picked a lock. In a vise. Is it easily pickable while hanging from a hasp, wi…

I was particularly looking for such (in fact these) questions while going backwards through the article again, and I must say:

I don't think you have a point here. All of these steps can be easily done while the lock is on the door. There are plenty of tools availabe to drill holes this way.

Nobody said it is "faster/slower/easier/more difficult" than existing attacks. It is a valid attack, it is quick and it makes almost no noise and worse: It isn't even obvious (you need to actively search for a tiny hole, otherwise you're just assuming all is OK)

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#123
post #106
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Isn't the point of a lock just to keep honest people honest? No. Honest people don't need to be "kept honest". Locks have the same purpose as other security systems (including electronic ones like crypto, etc.). They aren't intended to (and can't) keep a determined attacker out. What they do is increase the cost (in terms of time, effort, risk, etc.) of gaining access. The point is -- as far as possible -- to make…

Honest people do need to be kept honest. Even the most saintly can be tempted. If you found a twenty on the floor in an abandoned alleyway, would you hand it in to police, or would you steal that money? If your first thought was "It's not stealing for such a small amount", or "It's clearly been abandoned, so it's ok to take it", then you're the target audience for being kept honest. Your other point is spot on: the a…

>If your first thought was "It's not stealing for such a small amount"

Well, actually... where I live, it would not be stealing for such a small amount, given that you don't know who lost it, and it was found in an abandoned alleyway (and not say, an office, store or station etc. where it could be handed over to local personnel). Had you said fifty, the situation would've been different.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#124
post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you mean laminated glass ?

No they mean double glazed. Two layers of glass with a thin layer of air sandwiched between them. Windows are built like this in countries where the outside air temperature is far different than you'd want, as otherwise you spend a lot of money heating or cooling your windows, because glass is a poor insulator. But _air_ is a relatively good insulator considering it's transparent, the two sheets of glass stop the air…

Precisely. You can't break a double glazed window by throwing a rock at it.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#125
post #123
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest people do need to be kept honest. Even the most saintly can be tempted. If you found a twenty on the floor in an abandoned alleyway, would you hand it in to police, or would you steal that money? If your first thought was "It's not stealing for such a small amount", or "It's clearly been abandoned, so it's ok to take it", then you're the target audience for being kept honest. Your other point is spot on: the a…

>If your first thought was "It's not stealing for such a small amount" Well, actually... where I live, it would not be stealing for such a small amount, given that you don't know who lost it, and it was found in an abandoned alleyway (and not say, an office, store or station etc. where it could be handed over to local personnel). Had you said fifty, the situation would've been different.

Agreed. The amount is right on the edge of legality. Should you report it? Should you make an effort to find someone to hand it to? If the first shopkeeper around the corner says "Could be anyone's. Keep it" for a fifty, does that constitute a reasonable search for the owner?

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#126
post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>That's true of most locks in existence. Freaking American's and their "inward opening doors". Good luck kicking in any door in civilized countries in which doors open outwards.

Inward opening doors are also less safe when a bunch of people have to escape quickly.

Which is why most fire codes don’t allow them on buildings with a bunch of people in them.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#127
post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Battery backups, of course. There will always be failure modes. I mean, the failure mode for a traditional lock is "I lost my keys". Unless you have someone else with a spare set who can get to your location in a time you deem reasonable, you're going to have to have the door forced.

I once had a storage unit, and lost the key to the padlock. The manager said "no problem", and we went out to the unit. The manager pulled out a battery operated angle grinder, and cut the lock off in about 5 seconds. You're going to need a bank vault to beat an angle grinder. Those tools are the shiznit.

> You're going to need a bank vault to beat an angle grinder.

To beat? Agreed.

With that being said, grinding through a circular padlock takes much, much longer. I'd suggest using one of those for a storage unit.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#128

Slightly related to this, the Lock Picking Lawyer on Youtube has number of videos where he tries a Ramset gun [1] against different padlocks. For example: https://youtu.be/Wimo09WV-rY This was interesting as it was an attack that certainly would not have crossed my mind. Would be interesting to see how other types of locks would do against this kind of tool. [1] https://www.homedepot.com/p/Ramset-MasterShot-0-22-Cali…

I don't see the point though. Isn't this precisely what bolt cutters are to be used for?

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ironically, perhaps, the case I was thinking of when I wrote the comment was my friend's insurance refusing to pay out on his CD collection being stolen because there was no sign of forced entry (he'd left the patio doors unlocked). This was a number of years ago though, whether thieves still take CDs is an interesting question.

This is from 2012, no doubt the trend has continued https://www.economist.com/britain/2012/01/07/not-worth-nicki...

It seems likely. It was _quite some time ago_.

Re: Drilling open a smart door lock in 4 seconds

#130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. The truth is most (and I mean nearly all) residential door frames snap like a match stick with a hooligan tool. In a previous life I kicked in doors for a living. I don’t give a fuck how cool your dead bolt is. I could be in your face before you were out of bed. If you want to keep out lazy thieves any lock will do. If you’re preventing against a dynamic entry you need trip wires, man traps, metal door frames, a…

This isn't true - modern standard domestic polycarbonate and metal composite doors and frames with locks that engage all the way up are a real problem for the police as they're extremely hard to get through even with repeated blows from a battering ram. There is absolutely no chance whatsoever that you can kick in a modern door. You will break your leg first.

I've not yet encountered those. I didn't know they were popular either. Very interesting.
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