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My Talk at Microsoft

stallman.org

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Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#121

Post by mikepurvis »

simion314 wrote: post #48
Smithalicious wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I take issue with the "promote ... the best use of copyleft (GPL version 3-or-later)" here. The GPL is a controversial license by itself, though it's the de facto copyleft license and reasonable to promote it, but the GPLv3-vs-GPLv2 debate is alive and well and I don't want GitHub to "promote" either of them as "the best".

Were you ever affected by the GPL3 vs GPL2 license? I am just wondering who is affected(not everybody makes kernels and drivers)

Any MacOS user who has to put up with having bash-from-2006 as the default shell has been affected by GPL2 vs GPL3.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#122

Post by de_watcher »

Smithalicious wrote: post #23
nirui wrote: post #15

I somehow want to quote this too: > Direct GitHub to promote correct and clear use of licenses and the best use of copyleft (GPL version 3-or-later). I remember when I was very green, that list of licenses on the GitHub repository creation page is very very confusing to me. I don't know which is which and which one I should use, and most importantly, what's the effect of my choice. It could be great if GitHub can imp…

I take issue with the "promote ... the best use of copyleft (GPL version 3-or-later)" here. The GPL is a controversial license by itself, though it's the de facto copyleft license and reasonable to promote it, but the GPLv3-vs-GPLv2 debate is alive and well and I don't want GitHub to "promote" either of them as "the best".

TL;DR on GPLv3-vs-GPLv2: the v3 adds a protection against hardware lock-ins. It doesn't come up in 95% of the cases. But the license is different, so a debate can be started.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#123

Post by AnthonyMouse »

swebs wrote: post #114
dhruvmittal wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> They should, however, be a bit more repentant about starting a McCarthy-esque red scare against all things open source. Especially since we're still suffering from it. There are enough project & program managers who see the words "open source" on an engineering document & send us back to build or buy some alternative.

You sure that's not just for GPL? I worked at a place that had a strict no-GPL policy due to the legal risks of non-compliance. LGPL and MIT software was fine though.

"The legal risks of non-compliance" are the exact FUD the old Microsoft spread. If someone doesn't follow the GPL then they don't have a right to reproduce the software and can be liable for copyright infringement, which is the same as any software license proprietary or otherwise.

That someone wouldn't be liable if they distribute the source for their modifications doesn't increase the risk, it decreases it by providing an alternative to paying damages for infringement that they otherwise wouldn't have, since the GPL author will typically accept compliance in lieu of monetary damages.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#124

Post by dymk »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #98
5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

> Edit: Just a reminder that, only a week ago, this man was fired for using a technology forum to defend a 74 year old man having sex with a 17 year old prostitute on pedophile island. You're spreading lies, whether or not you're aware of it. The man has resigned (most likely being forced out) for being pedantic about an accusation about a 74 year old man, that allegedly - and in fact not at all, if the actual witnes…

Right. They were “probably willing” according to RMS. Totally fine.

@mods why was this flagged? It’s factual. We have his correspondence about how they were “probably willing”.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#125

Post by swebs »

Chris2048 wrote: post #96
5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

As opposed to Jobs?

It's a whole different league than with Jobs. Take a look at the glossary page on his blog.

https://stallman.org/glossary.html

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#126

Post by pawelmurias »

celticmusic wrote: post #93
5trokerac3 wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. I did attack his ideas as authoritarian. I'm also attacking him as the worst face of the FOSS movement, because if your messenger is shit people assume your movement is shit too. 2. Are you seriously comparing flying to a pedophile sex island to knowingly have sex with a minor to unknowingly watching the wrong vid on PornHub? Is this really the argument you want to post on HN?

minsky refused to have sex with the girl, there's an eye witness corroborating it. The very least you can do is get your facts straight.

Stallman did his best to convince everyone he was guilty.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#127

Post by arthurcolle »

bubblethink wrote: post #34
meddlepal wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why anyone would think it is impossible, but it would take significant money and time to do it and it is unclear what benefit there would be except some small good will gained from developers that care about the FSF mission.

>it is unclear what benefit there would be You can run windows software elsewhere. What more do you need ?

The source code.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#128

Post by deskamess »

richard_todd wrote: post #67
Zhyl wrote: post #5

>Publicly take back Microsoft's attacks on copyleft made in the 2000s. Ballmer called the GPL a "cancer". Allchin called it "un-American". (from the "Suggestions I gave to Microsoft" section) This is something I agree with. I don't think that Microsoft are likely to apologise for EEE [1] as that is likely just considered 'business' and part of the zeitgeist; neither do I think that Microsoft necessarily needs to endo…

Earlier he had said that we shouldn’t keep old grudges, so I was surprised he then turned around and asked for them to renounce statements from 20+ years ago, made by people that aren’t even there anymore. In my mind, .net core and vs code and countless smaller projects are a complete renunciation of their previous public statements. Maybe Stallman can’t see that because they MIT license those things, but why ask for…

Your point about 'action' vs 'talk' is valid.

In this case what is being asked is not a grudge that needs to be addressed. Keep in mind the underlying context of the suggestions => "what can Microsoft do". So this is, in my eyes, more of something that Microsoft can choose to do for themselves - admit that they said things in the past that were not exactly true. A self initiated internal cleaning of the air as they continue to engage the public community. This is not something that they have to do to address a grudge. It should be mostly symbolic to the external world. So, is there value in Microsoft actually coming out and saying it? Well, that's for Microsoft to decide.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#129

Post by 5trokerac3 »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #98
5trokerac3 wrote: post #16

> I resisted Steve Jobs's snow job in 1989 or 1990; I am no easy mark for those who want me to change my views. Why do people still prop this insufferable person up? Interacting with everyone like an angsty teen is no way for anyone who considers themself a professional to publicly talk. IMO FOSS is where it is today more despite Stallman than because of him. Being an asshole isn't necessarily a sign of being a savan…

> Edit: Just a reminder that, only a week ago, this man was fired for using a technology forum to defend a 74 year old man having sex with a 17 year old prostitute on pedophile island. You're spreading lies, whether or not you're aware of it. The man has resigned (most likely being forced out) for being pedantic about an accusation about a 74 year old man, that allegedly - and in fact not at all, if the actual witnes…

One person, with god knows what motivations, who must have also been on pedo island, attempts to protect Minsky's reputation and all the other circumstantial evidence of where he was, who he was with, and what everyone else was doing, let alone the initial accusation, goes out the window?

Next you're going to tell me that Bill Gates, one of the wealthiest men in the world's, excuse of "I used Epstein to meet billionaires" was believable.

Re: My Talk at Microsoft

#130

Post by UserIsUnused »

Zhyl wrote: post #5

>Publicly take back Microsoft's attacks on copyleft made in the 2000s. Ballmer called the GPL a "cancer". Allchin called it "un-American". (from the "Suggestions I gave to Microsoft" section) This is something I agree with. I don't think that Microsoft are likely to apologise for EEE [1] as that is likely just considered 'business' and part of the zeitgeist; neither do I think that Microsoft necessarily needs to endo…

Ballmer was more specifically referring to governmental funding going to free software, his competitors.
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