Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

routefifty.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 132 posts

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#121

Post by habosa »

mgraczyk wrote: post #119

Since moving to San Francisco 5 years ago I have been attacked on the street 4 times and had property stolen from my home 3 times. In only 1 of these cases was there a witnessing camera. I think there is a very real tradeoff between safety and privacy, and I personally feel like my city would be better off sacrificing privacy in favor of more safety.

Agree. If you limit the allowed use-cases and have strict access and retention policies this could be really helpful.

Of course it could be used for dumb shit like giving out jaywalking tickets en-masse. And I'm not sure there's any existing agency I trust to draw the line correctly.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#123

Post by [deleted] »

nostrademons wrote: post #108
swiley wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no place in the world for that kind of person. Most of them have probably given up in some way and new ones are rare.

Is that actually true? Or is it just that given their paranoia & interests, posting about it on a public message board might not be a good idea?

[deleted]

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#124

Post by acchow »

greggman2 wrote: post #32
AJRF wrote: post #9

Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…

There's a lot of comparing apples to oranges 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 76. Tokyo, Japan - 24,500 cameras for 37,435,191 people = 0.65 cameras per 1,000 people Well, first off what are we comparing? They list 26.3 million people for Shanghai and 37.4 million for Tokyo. That's comparing the metropolitian area of Tokyo (Tokyo, Kanagawa, Saitama, Chiba)…

> I always found it strange if the Japanese are so honest (perception may be different than reality) then why do they need so many cameras?

Solving the long tail end has decreasing returns.

If you already have a well-behaving society, then adding a few cameras probably won't change anything at all. You need a whole lot of cameras to have any meaningful effect.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#125

Post by sverige »

habosa wrote: post #120

Sometimes I think about theoretically committing a crime. Just running it through in my head. I feel like in every single situation I'd have to pull some seriously Mission Impossible stuff not to get caught on some camera. I realize most crimes are not thought through very rationally, but this feels like a rational deterrent to crime. So in that sense I don't mind cameras. What would bother me is: a) Excessive video…

The one time I was robbed at gunpoint, there was video of the guy at a nearby gas station trying to use my cards. The cops said they got nothing useful from the video. I suspect that a lot of cameras are fairly useless in that sense.

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#126

Post by taneq »

greggman2 wrote: post #32
AJRF wrote: post #9

Top 20 1. Chongqing, China – 2,579,890 cameras for 15,354,067 people = 168.03 cameras per 1,000 people 2. Shenzhen, China – 1,929,600 cameras for 12,128,721 people = 159.09 cameras per 1,000 people 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 4. Tianjin, China – 1,244,160 cameras for 13,396,402 people = 92.87 cameras per 1,000 people 5. Ji’nan, China – 540,463 cameras…

There's a lot of comparing apples to oranges 3. Shanghai, China – 2,985,984 cameras for 26,317,104 people = 113.46 cameras per 1,000 people 76. Tokyo, Japan - 24,500 cameras for 37,435,191 people = 0.65 cameras per 1,000 people Well, first off what are we comparing? They list 26.3 million people for Shanghai and 37.4 million for Tokyo. That's comparing the metropolitian area of Tokyo (Tokyo, Kanagawa, Saitama, Chiba)…

> I always found it strange if the Japanese are so honest (perception may be different than reality) then why do they need so many cameras?

Is it part of the zero-unemployment busywork culture?

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#128

Post by kalleboo »

Tomte wrote: post #95
sweezyjeezy wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it also conflates private/publicly owned cameras. As someone who lives in London, I think we get unfairly portrayed as a surveillance state, because really the vast majority of cameras are inside shops and businesses, not on the street, and not connected to any central databank. I personally don't find cameras like these troubling. Once you get out of central London, most streets don't have cameras on them.

The one time I was in London fifteen years ago, it felt like 1984. I was sitting in a bus and there were at least five or six TVs showing several camera perspectives. Including one directly at the back of my head, which showed some early signs of balding. It was the most unpleasant bus ride I have ever had. London is nuts.

It's the posters that creep me out

http://www.adsavvy.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/watchful_e...

http://www.adsavvy.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/creepcamz....

Re: Six U.S. Cities Make the List of Most Surveilled Places in the World

#130

Post by Semaphor »

filoleg wrote: post #110
Semaphor wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I personally don't find cameras like these troubling. It’s interesting to hear this difference. Here in Germany there are often cases where the courts forbid fake cameras because they "create an atmosphere of surveillance".

Berlin has made that list too, though.

It’s not as if cameras are illegal here. You just need to have good reasons for them and have a very narrow area it surveils.

For example many of those fake cams getting forbidden were from landlords and residents sued. Now if there were good reason like many break-ins in the area, the same landlord would have been allowed to have a real camera there.

Post reply on HN