Live data from Hacker News

How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

nytimes.com

121–130 of 150 posts

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#121
post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people, they are not even government-sponsored Wumao, they genuinely love China and defend it, their reason being it may have some flaws but any other country has too and is…

> These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people

You know this how?

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not a big deal to discuss it even in China. My father bragged he was with the student leader the night before 64 happened. It’s CCP’s fault to commit mistakes when handling students. Is it worth overthrowing CCP just because of it? Hell Chinese people answered no, at least when they are doing most other things right. “Greater good”, you have to understand this to understand Chineses first

I actually heard it is heavily censored and people are kept at bay from openly talking about it. Am I misimformed? If so, can you tell me what is the general purpose of having the great firewall and why is there a need to keep people in the dark about certain things?

I grew up in Beijing and because of the affinity politics are more common topic there. It’s not that “open”, more like in private dinner party, inner circle friend hangout and more likely you can safely start those conversations with taxi drivers who blames the government all the time

The decision to keep people in dark to me is silly but the motivation was always rumors spreads too fast and too wild in China, so it makes sense for the ruler to fear even if they aren’t that dirty. What’s funny is the harder they try to cover up things the quicker it spreads “hey try search XXX it’s blocked”

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#123
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people, they are not even government-sponsored Wumao, they genuinely love China and defend it, their reason being it may have some flaws but any other country has too and is…

I wouldn't say most Chinese love the system. They don't despise it though. I think a lot see the HK thing as an attack on their country. There's a fair bit of history (the insult of losing territory to foreign powers) and also current tensions ('locusts' is a HK slur against mainland Chinese). A lot of HK people kinda dislike mainlanders coming to HK, but the city kinda relies on mainland money. So there's already a…

I feel like all the people who are involuntary organ-donors might disagree if they weren't dead. China has a way of disappearing people who don't like it. I wonder how many people would come out more vocally if you weren't disappeared for disagreeing or even being outspoken.

https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the...

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#124
post #5

Am starting to feel this trolling is an industry (like troll farm) of its own - there are people or bots dedicated to trolling and reporting people who raise voice against the discrimination.. I recently had to report an unfair service by virgin atlantic staff after an emergency landing - I tweeted the pictures and video of the incident.. I was immediately trolled by twitter accounts about how i should be happy that…

You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people, they are not even government-sponsored Wumao, they genuinely love China and defend it, their reason being it may have some flaws but any other country has too and is…

I would say "love" might not be accurate word. A lot of things CPP did are quite controversial and it's well known to most educated people. However alternatives are much worse which is not very well known outside of Chinese speaking community. In addtion, western media constantly brain wash their wesern audiance by distorting news coverage so that quite some Westerners believe CPP defenders are the brain washed groups added fuel to nationalist sentiment by insulting those CPP defenders.

So to consider lot of mainland Chinese defending CPP as "they love CPP" is a simplified interpretation. Does'nt reflect reality

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. This has been a common theme with this "Fake News and Social Bots" stuff since the very beginning not reserved to China. On the 34C3 there was a really interesting talk [0] about the troublesome nature of cl…

> You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. Is that what they actually feel, or is that exactly the upper limit of what the State accepts as legitimate dissatisfaction with the status quo, which the vast majority of people are aware of an unwilling to…

It is extremely hard to get an honest opinion about what anybody feels, but it is important to know the context. China is an extremely large place with a history of attempts at cohesion which is 98% successful but only in the last several decades.

150 years ago there was a stalemate with a guy claiming to be Jesus' brother before the winners decided to absolve the state of religion. In that context its clear how order is kept over there.

There are 8 cities in the region surrounding Hong Kong with distinct cultural nuances and history which are now also more economically relevant to China and arguable the world stage. Shenzhen, the one bordering Hong Kong, is an marvel on its own, and it would make sense if our news had more represenation about things happening there alone, than Hong Kong, purely from academic and industrial advances. The standard of living in those areas does contrast to Hong Kong now: HK has the extreme market driven inequalities as London, Vancouver, San Francisco, you name it - while the spacious but dense neighboring zones offer modern spacious but practical accomodations and safety nets as a byproduct of the marxist ideologies with the newly added twist of valuing private ownership and increasing forms of capital formation.

Its not as simple as trying to school every Chinese person you see on how oppressed they are. It will always, 100% of the time, be met with vitriol. Its just not that simple.

In classic socialist fashion it does remain to be seen what happens when the economy downturns. The outcome is predictable. But for now, the party has won after a long history to get where it is, it maintains cohesion and stability and rising living standards for the world's largest population, while others in the world practicing a market based ideology struggle with their also predictable problems.

Its not relevant to the average person that the communist party acts in its own interest. The corruption is aggravating but there is nothing to act on. Its not relevant on a day to day basis that disgusting party members all the way up north in beijing are having dissident's body parts harvested so the party member stays healthy. This has nothing to do with the cohesion of the country, and there is zero context to imagine a rule of law ideal that applies to prevent this. Its not relevant that all the way on the other side of the Gobi fuckin desert, there are concentration camps. There are also no threats of islamic extremism. Yet again, something the loudest countries also aren't able to brag about.

Its important to understand how irrelevant Hong Kong residents are to Chinese people internally. Its important to understand how irrelevant the authoritatian central planning of Beijing is to Chinese people on a daily basis. Then, you can begin to understand how Chinese respond to the things we focus on. We focus on everything dark about China, as if everything about China is dark. They simply don't.

The party isn't playing a game of civil rights. They are playing the millenium old game of "lets run a country and make sure nobody attacks us". Mission accomplished, nobody is attacking China or even wants to, not even non-state religious extremists. The people accept that role of government, accept that centralized power comes with disproportionate privileges even its aggravating, and accept that they're being provided for.

They watch their competitors continue to play imperialist and watch them undermine their own budgetary contraints and their own national security. Whereas China loosens marxist restrictions on their entrepreneurs to develop in burdgeoning and fragmented markets that the west is ignoring, and doesn't undermine its national security in the process. Its an approach, its a perspective. I think we should try to incorporate that context into why they do what they do.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#126
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I will take facts over opinions any day of the week. Then why place so much faith on 2 YouTubers instead of a seasoned China hand who has been around longer, whose work has been recognized by other China hands, who aggregates information from both western and Chinese sources to provide a relatively impartial view of the situation? My contention isn't an appeal to authority and call to defer to experts, but to point…

Just this past week China blocked American's from leaving their country (exit bans), even though they didn't commit any crimes. That is seriously tyrannical level activity. Can a foreigner get a bank account and buy land in China? How hard is it to get a job as an white westerner in China? What kind of jobs are prevalent for foreigners in China? Look at the videos of people getting hit by cars there and no helps. Why…

>And you think that a couple vloggers are the cause of this bad press???

No, but they did proceed the recent normal in poor Chinese reporting. I think their first viral video was on Chinese ghost cities 4 years ago? And people have been linking their hot takes ever since. You often see this in conjunction with "lol my Chinese wife / girlfriend / fried / coworker who grew up in China is really nice and smart but when it comes to issues of China they're so brainwashed". But two white expats who lived in China briefly, in situations that are fairly atypical even by expat standards, of course _their_ assessments are accurate reflections of reality.

I don't even know where to start breaking down all your questions. The answer to almost all of them is, it's complicated. There has been an increase in garbage reporting by western MSM since the tradewar. Geopolitical conditions are different now and biased Sinophobic agenda driven pieces are everywhere to the point where a Chinese person familiar with living under censorship is surprised that manufactured consent by a free 5th estate + low information readers is almost indistinguishable from state propaganda. It doesn't help that foreign reporting in Asian bureaus are full of folks with limited regional language and cultural proficiency and sexpats.

>The garbage China pulls on the rest of the world is overwhelming.

This doesn't strike me as the opinion of someone who lauds hearing "multiple sides to an argument".

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#127
post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, because the quality of life is indeed getting better and better in China. CCP successfully satisfied the fundamental need of people who were living under extreme poverty before right? Perhaps the next generation of Chinese people will start to demand more freedom, etc..

That would seem logical, but it’s less accurate than you might think. Revolutions actually become more common as society exists famine and extreme poverty. The issue is when people start wanting more than food and shelter it becomes more apparent all the things they can’t buy like free speech, or more recently clean air.

[deleted]

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#128
post #123
post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wouldn't say most Chinese love the system. They don't despise it though. I think a lot see the HK thing as an attack on their country. There's a fair bit of history (the insult of losing territory to foreign powers) and also current tensions ('locusts' is a HK slur against mainland Chinese). A lot of HK people kinda dislike mainlanders coming to HK, but the city kinda relies on mainland money. So there's already a…

I feel like all the people who are involuntary organ-donors might disagree if they weren't dead. China has a way of disappearing people who don't like it. I wonder how many people would come out more vocally if you weren't disappeared for disagreeing or even being outspoken. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the...

Give you some hint: According to Godel theorem, a system in higher order is necessary to judge the truth in current system. So self claim the story is true implied the story teller (i.e. the author of the news) is not quite intellegent and maybe very naive to mix fact and belief.

I totally respect your strong belief about the story. But don't enforce others accept your personal opion by imply your personal belief is truth. It's quite insulting.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#129
post #128
post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like all the people who are involuntary organ-donors might disagree if they weren't dead. China has a way of disappearing people who don't like it. I wonder how many people would come out more vocally if you weren't disappeared for disagreeing or even being outspoken. https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/real-life/true-stories/the...

Give you some hint: According to Godel theorem, a system in higher order is necessary to judge the truth in current system. So self claim the story is true implied the story teller (i.e. the author of the news) is not quite intellegent and maybe very naive to mix fact and belief. I totally respect your strong belief about the story. But don't enforce others accept your personal opion by imply your personal belief is…

Being insulted by someone who is expressing what they believe to be true is not very conducive to participating in a rational discussion of anything.

Re: How China Unleashed Twitter Trolls to Discredit Hong Kong’s Protesters

#130
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You may not believe it, the vast majority of Chinese actually love the CCP and the system, they only just hate that a few corrupt low-level officials who are the bad apples fucking up leaders' glorious visions. These "bots" are mostly spontaneous people, they are not even government-sponsored Wumao, they genuinely love China and defend it, their reason being it may have some flaws but any other country has too and is…

I would say "love" might not be accurate word. A lot of things CPP did are quite controversial and it's well known to most educated people. However alternatives are much worse which is not very well known outside of Chinese speaking community. In addtion, western media constantly brain wash their wesern audiance by distorting news coverage so that quite some Westerners believe CPP defenders are the brain washed group…

To take a single example: The Great Leap Forward in the late 1950s which caused the deaths of many millions of people through famine. Which alternatives do you think were 'much worse' than that?
Post reply on HN