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Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

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Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#121

Post by opportune »

kyrra wrote: post #52
jorawebdev wrote: post #19

Other than having “Google” on my resume there is nothing special or applicable outside of Google. Most tools are internal, isolated and the choices are restrictive. Management is shitty - micro-management is in full bloom, display lack of management knowledge, skills and there’s plenty of abuse of power. They don’t show their appreciation to what we do. All developers are very competitive. My entire time of over a ye…

As someone who has worked at multiple companies, currently at Google, you don't tend to leave a company, you leave a manager. Managers are one of your primary interfaces to a company. If those managers are crap, you will have a bad experience.

I don’t really agree with this, most of my decisions regarding moving companies have been motivated primarily by money/tech/location rather than my manager. And I assume it’s similar for many others. Plenty of people leave google to work at places with similarly good perks but better pay even if they have no issues with their manager

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#122

Post by wolco »

D-Coder wrote: post #82
wolco wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How can you have micro-management and isolation?

They ignore you for weeks, then complain about every line of code and solution you've produced and tell you how you should have done it. Repeat every month or two until crazy.

Complaining at the end is a different problem that gets solved during the requirements phase. They are not micro-managing your day but the end results against expectations.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#123

Post by crimsonalucard »

opportune wrote: post #119
crimsonalucard wrote: post #113

I think I'm a good engineer, but I don't think I have the intelligence to get into google. Most people can't. There's definitely some sort of difference between an engineer who can get in google and one who can't as displayed by the interview. Most companies that interview people outside of FAANG tend to have easier interview questions in my experience. Some even forego algorithms all together. For googlers who worke…

I’m not sure why many people seem to think this, there are like tens of thousands of engineers at google, and there are other good companies out there that also have tons of engineers, you don’t need to be that special to get a job at google. As long as you can get your first interview all you need to do is be able to solve data structures and algorithms problems and talk about software design. Let’s not put google o…

The interviews at google are hard enough such that only a fraction of software engineers can make it through.

Thus by statistics and logic, the majority of the worlds engineers cannot get past the google interview. This is not something I am thinking, this is a statistical reality.

Literally, in order for those engineers to work anywhere else the algorithm questions must be significantly easier in other companies outside of the elite FAANG. This is inline with logic and my observations.

My question is... for googlers who have spent time outside of google at a more scrapy startup. Does the interview filter actually create a better class of engineers? Do you learn much more working at google then you would at a company who's engineers typically can't get into google? What's the experience like if there is any?

Don't get me wrong. I'm not worshipping googlers or asking for tips. A real dichotomy exists in the interview stage for the few engineers who pass and the majority who don't... I'm just curious if this dichotomy becomes obvious outside of the interview... like on the job? Do you notice a difference when working with a google engineer vs. someone who probably can't ever get into google. It's a complicated question with a complicated answer. I'm not really looking for some humble answer telling me that google engineers aren't that much different from other engineers when the interview essentially disproves this statement by filtering out everyone except for a certain type of person.

I want an honest and candid answer.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#124

Post by bt848 »

dvirsky wrote: post #114
bt848 wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sort of. I didn’t mention it because level doesn’t really limit your scope. If you have a way to make a big impact nobody is going to tell you to not do it because you’re too junior. It’s just that the higher levels are expected to operate at company-wide scope all the time. You can hide your level such that other people don’t see it, which is another difference between Google and my current company where people intr…

I've heard the phrase "well, a T7 said otherwise, who am I to argue" and similar from people.

It’s up to each individual to make the most of an environment where the utterances of senior engineers are just advice. You don’t need their permission.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#125

Post by opportune »

crimsonalucard wrote: post #123
opportune wrote: post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure why many people seem to think this, there are like tens of thousands of engineers at google, and there are other good companies out there that also have tons of engineers, you don’t need to be that special to get a job at google. As long as you can get your first interview all you need to do is be able to solve data structures and algorithms problems and talk about software design. Let’s not put google o…

The interviews at google are hard enough such that only a fraction of software engineers can make it through. Thus by statistics and logic, the majority of the worlds engineers cannot get past the google interview. This is not something I am thinking, this is a statistical reality. Literally, in order for those engineers to work anywhere else the algorithm questions must be significantly easier in other companies out…

Ok sure I’ll give you an honest and candid answer. It’s basically analogous to top schools. Yes the average engineer at Google is going to be better than the average engineer at some random company because google generally has a higher hiring bar. Similarly your average student at Harvard is going to be a better student than your average student at Random State University.

As a result you will on average learn more than at most other companies. Of course there are trading firms, quant hedge funds, and a few other big tech companies with even higher hiring bars where you will learn more. And some of the things you learn, anywhere, while very useful to getting stuff done at where you work, will not be readily transferable elsewhere.

But large companies as I’ve said before are basically all the same. The people you interact with are a vanishingly small subset of the entire company so it doesn’t even really make sense to speak in terms of what it’s like at the entire company.

The interviewing filter mostly does one thing which is that it biases the engineers at google to be generally good at solving data structures and algorithms. This, by the way, is a skill that can be taught — and even though it might roughly approximate engineering ability it doesn’t map directly.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#126

Post by crimsonalucard »

opportune wrote: post #125
crimsonalucard wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The interviews at google are hard enough such that only a fraction of software engineers can make it through. Thus by statistics and logic, the majority of the worlds engineers cannot get past the google interview. This is not something I am thinking, this is a statistical reality. Literally, in order for those engineers to work anywhere else the algorithm questions must be significantly easier in other companies out…

Ok sure I’ll give you an honest and candid answer. It’s basically analogous to top schools. Yes the average engineer at Google is going to be better than the average engineer at some random company because google generally has a higher hiring bar. Similarly your average student at Harvard is going to be a better student than your average student at Random State University. As a result you will on average learn more t…

Thanks for being candid, is this inline with your experience? Have you worked at a smaller company and google as well? Your logic is really sound but I'm also asking this question for the purposes of gathering anecdotal experiences as well.

Your answer is great, btw, I just noted that you used the word "average" over a personal example so I wanted to get an idea of where you're coming from.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#127

Post by Spooky23 »

chillacy wrote: post #74
paul7986 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Personally that sounds like barf ... politics, stress, insecurities, backstabbing, stress, burn out. I am much happier working in boring government where working hard for family and with mature/secure with themselves (older) adults is paramount & prevalent. Thankfully not an enticing environment for douchebags.

Doesn't government come with its own hurdles? I have friends who have to deal with securing grant money (it's own game of flexing how important your project is with decision makers).

Government and Fortune 50 are similar in that they are big command economy type things that make decisions that don’t make any sense.

The only real differences are that leadership people generally won’t fuck you for personal financial gain, because everyone makes about the same at senior levels, and employees rarely get fired, just shuffled around.

If you’re a contractor and are smart, you stay friendly with everyone and always listen. Events that will get you purged are either procurement problems or bad political decisions with respect to the budget for whatever you do.

With employees, you need to do the dance of getting shit done while avoiding accountability. You need to get attention for performance without pisiing people off. It’s critical to find and attach yourself to a good leader.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#128

Post by mav3rick »

aalhour wrote: post #97
drewg123 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is all very applicable to Google. I was at Google for 2 years and I got promoted L5 to L6. The key (I think) was working across teams with people who were already L6 or higher, and who were willing to write for my promo packet. In terms of what I learned? I think the most important lesson was: Don't get bogged down in details that are irrelevant to you & count on others to do their jobs. I came from a small (~15…

Congrats on the promotion, did you join Google as an L5? Also, can you share more advice on the technical side, like what do you are the abstractions, mind models and technologies that you think are applicable outside of Google and would be worthy of studying?

Thinking in APIs and contracts always helps reduce complex problems to slightly more tractable ones.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#129

Post by mav3rick »

jorawebdev wrote: post #84
alephnan wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We’re you a TVC or a full time employee?

I'm still a TVC. This could be a separate discussion on the scope of how TVCs are treated and it could complement all the recent articles in the media, however, my main focus was on something common, such as tech stack, restrictions and constrictions that will impact you when you go out and work somewhere else.

TVCs get many of the same perks full time Googlers do. You can always interview if you want to be a full time.

Re: Ask HN: What Have You Learned at Google as a Software Engineer?

#130

Post by mav3rick »

riku_iki wrote: post #75
awinter-py wrote: post #6

A friend who spent a short time there said "you know that tool that you want to build before you start working on your real job? At G, it already exists" This is less true now because a lot of their tooling has been exported either directly or by rumors leading to it getting rebuilt outside. I'm talking containerization / orchestration and protobufs specifically.

> At G, it already exists quality of the tool has also significant impact on the end result. Looking at the number of unsuccessful external projects, I bet they also have enough mess inside.

Right search , maps , YouTube all run smoothly because of a "mess". Google code is some of the cleanest most organized I've seen.
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