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Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

nimh.nih.gov

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Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#121

Post by rightbyte »

This is just bogus p-hacking and perverse causality analysis.

Look at their graph of monthly data.

https://i.imgur.com/mc8PJW8.png

You can't draw any conclusion from that but that it is an overall increasing trend with cyclic tendencies by season.

March prior to the release in the end of March was already all time high rate of suicides.

"Table 1. Association Between the Release of 13 Reasons Why and Suicide in the United States, by Age Group"

I mean ... it's just stupid. The series' premiere date is also a arbitrary point in time.

I don't refute that the series might have increased the suicide rate, but I have no idea how to verify that or put a estimate on it. The authors surely don't know either.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#122

Post by mieseratte »

jakelazaroff wrote: post #92
mieseratte wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines. Not sure why you put quotes around constitutional freedom. The reason for the amendment is such that when someone or someones come along and attempt to abridge your rights you can kill them with the killing machine. As simple as that.

It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US.

> It will always be weird to me that threatening to murder other citizens for some vague, ill-defined hypothetical transgression is a mainstream, mostly accepted political viewpoint here in the US.

It's weird to me that advocating for the cessation of an absolute right to self-defense is a mainstream political position.

It's not as if history is one peachy peace-and-love orgy.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#123

Post by homonculus1 »

irrational wrote: post #49
TheArcane wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Limit second amendment more to prevent more shootings. I've always wondered the validity of a "constitutional freedom" that allows random everyday people to own and operate tools that are essentially killing machines.

I thought it had to do with the British saying the colonists shouldn't have weapons that could help the colonists revolt against their government. So the constitution says that the people should have access to the weapons they need to overthrow the government if needed. Of course, the constitution writers didn't envision the government having tanks, airplanes, nuclear missiles, etc. that make it practically impossibl…

Heavy ordnance, nukes, etc. can't realistically be employed against grassroots resistance from the population at large. As a rule, corrupt governments prefer to control cities and infrastructure, not smoking craters, so the tools of authoritarian control are limited to police squads and small arms.

Look at the Chinese response to the protests in Hong Kong. Are they flying bombers over the city and setting up artillery? No, they're using forces of infantry, police, and paramilitary thugs who are far outnumbered by the protesters. If they actually leveled one of their own cities the entire government would collapse on itself.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#124

Post by soperj »

aphextim wrote: post #2

Same reason that when they show the shooter's face all over the media and they give them tons and tons of attention, it typically spawns more copycats who are just lonely/sad/broken teens looking for the same attention. In the show, this teen's suicide was portrayed to have had an impact on many students/families/teachers etc for a very long time after the incident. It almost glorified the suicide and the methods of…

I think you'd be surprised. I had a friend for a couple years in Junior High. He had some family issues, and ended up getting kicked out of school, and we lost touch. 6-7 years after high school, he killed himself. I've never talked to the family, but still think about him.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#125

Post by probably_wrong »

pgrote wrote: post #6

"When researchers analyzed the data by sex, they found the increase in the suicide rate was primarily driven by significant increases in suicide in young males. While suicide rates for females increased after the show’s release, the increase was not statistically significant." I have watched the series. I wonder why males saw a significant increase in suicides if the show revolved around a female suicide. And, yes, I…

> I wonder why males saw a significant increase in suicides if the show revolved around a female suicide.

As someone who didn't watch the series: perhaps the story is male-oriented, even if the character is a woman?

As an example: imagine that you take the movie John Wick, redo the movie shot-by-shot and line-by-line with a woman replacing Keanu Reeves, and call it "Jean Wick". I bet it would still appeal to the exact same demographic.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#126

Post by jfrankamp »

asadlionpk wrote: post #18
tyingq wrote: post #7

I'm curious if there's an unusual dip after the spike. In other words, it might have accelerated some suicides, versus adding to the overall rate over a longer time period.

That would be true if all the population watched the series at t0. But in reality the series is always new to someone somewhere.

I think the parent was implying that the show's effect was time shifting imminent suicides to 'now'. Since the consumption of streaming media is big-spike-on-release + long tail, that big spike when the show is released would still be visible. It would look like a spike and then dip for suicides averaging to the trend line on a larger time scale.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#128

Post by csharpminor »

duxup wrote: post #48
aphextim wrote: post #2

Same reason that when they show the shooter's face all over the media and they give them tons and tons of attention, it typically spawns more copycats who are just lonely/sad/broken teens looking for the same attention. In the show, this teen's suicide was portrayed to have had an impact on many students/families/teachers etc for a very long time after the incident. It almost glorified the suicide and the methods of…

NPR did a good story on a study that examined what shooters DO and DO NOT like. They like videos of chaos and screaming. They like their photo shown. They don't like stories about the victims that make the victims seem like they're human. What they were doing before the shootings, things they did with their lives, etc. They don't like stories about the community itself that aren't just about the event (shooting). I n…

Could you link to a source? This is interesting to me but I'd like to know more about their method for arriving at those conclusions. I wasn't able to find the article/study you're referencing.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#129

Post by ggreer »

malandrew wrote: post #118
ggreer wrote: post #69

The full text is on Sci-hub: https://sci-hub.tw/10.1016/j.jaac.2019.04.020 I'm extremely skeptical. I don't know how many ways they carved up the data before they found a segment of the population with increased suicide rates at the right time. Also, the show is about a girl who kills herself, but the female rate of suicide didn't increase enough to be considered statistically significant. Lastly, the spike in suicid…

Maybe I missed it in the article, but did they check the Netflix viewing history of those that committed suicide. Seems like that would be a critical causal link. If a show about suicide is available on Netflix and no one is around to watch it...

They did not. The CDC data on suicides only contains statistical information, not identities. And even if the researchers did have the identities of everyone who committed suicide, I doubt Netflix would share account data with them. It would also be very noisy as many teens use their parents' Netflix accounts.

Re: Release of “13 Reasons Why” Associated with Increase in Youth Suicide Rates

#130

Post by Nasrudith »

pseudolus wrote: post #5

Obviously horrific but a major failing of the study is that it doesn't state what percentage of the teens who committed suicide actually watched or were even aware of Netflix's "13 Reasons Why". The conclusions are drawn from very indirect evidence.

I wonder if that is even needed ironically given second order exposure and cultural concepts leaking out regardless of actually watching it or not. Granted the "second hand" usually takes time for diffusion of concepts.
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