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What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

moderntreasury.com

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Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#121
post #15
post #12

This reminds me of a question I've had for the longest time (+): why is it that in the US wiring money between accounts is so expensive or difficult? Whole ecosystems of companies have sprung up (PayPal and Stripe come to mind, and apps such as TransferWise) to reduce the friction when the banks could easily set up a way cheaper system that would actually be better (privacy etc.) for the consumer. The EU seems to be…

Moving from Australia to Canada/US felt like going back in time 20 years when it came to banking. Even ten years ago in Australia I could do more with my online banking than I can today in North America. Checks are for what now?

I use checks to pay vendors I don’t like, like the for-profit power utility my building forces me to use.

I have stamps to use up, and it costs them probably $7-$10 to handle it.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A partial answer is also the US's approach to banking regulation. First off, the US prioritizes having many small community banks. The US has 4,909 banks, while Japan has 198. This necessarily makes setting up inter-operation between banks more complicated. Second, US banks are regulated on both a Federal and State level. A system that works for a bunch of banks in California may not be viable for interoperation with…

I like community banks. They don't fuck you in the ass like big banks.

Even better is for a community to _own_ a bank.

In the UK there are Building Societies. Originally the concept went only like this: If a thousand workers in a town pool their savings to form a mutual Building Society it can use that money to loan someone (one of their number or somebody else) money to build a house. The new house owner's payments on the loan provide good interest on the savings and a profit the society can use to expand, as savings and loan payments roll in they can loan more money for another house and so on, eventually everybody gets a house and rich bankers get nothing because the society's savers and borrowers are also its owners. The first ones were Limited Building Societies, they ceased to exist after a period of time having served their purpose - providing loans within a geographically constrained community, but the Permanent Building Societies grew, and eventually came to dominate mortgage lending as an industry in the UK.

Towards the end of last century unfortunately there were what the press called "Carpetbaggers". The carpetbaggers realised that a Permanent Building Society has a considerable cash reserve because it needs to be able to survive a "bank run" and its main assets are other people's homes which aren't liquid enough to cash out if a run happens. Their plan was, join the society and then vote as members to convert the society into a limited company, an ordinary bank - effectively cashing out. This worked on a number of famous Permanent Building Societies, including the one that had loaned money for the house I was growing up in at the time. I voted against, my parents (whose mortgage it was) voted in favour, and their side won, the society no longer exists. Some societies instituted "anti-carpetbagger" rules to try to prevent it, challenged demutualisation in the courts, or just plain voted against - those are still successful today, while the ones that turned into ordinary banks were mostly ruined in the recession (e.g. Northern Rock)

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#123
post #116
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article on the null-pointer bug goes into technical details about what the exposed error case is - the fact that it's a bug is made super clear - the fact that it's a logic bug is pretty readily apparent. The Stripe article starts with "I worked at Stripe for 3+ years" so Stripe is clearly a company, the article itself is focused on the operations & team cohesion side of stripe not on their line of business. The…

> ACH is not a common jargon term It’s not jargon at all, is it? It’s just literally the proper name for the specific payment network. I thought jargon is industry-specific slang terms for concepts that could otherwise be described with less industry-specific terms. There is no simpler or clearer way I’m aware of to refer specifically to ACH. As for it being common, if you work as a developer on any web products that…

As someone from the US, though who now lives in the UK, I would feel the need to quality that with the phrase "needless jargon" if I wanted to refer specifically to jargon that could otherwise be described with less industry-specific terms.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> since we have many fewer banks Australia has fewer still, with the big 5 almost entirely dominant, yet we have instant bank transfers through Osko, have had almost universal contactless in store payments for years, etc. I suspect it's more about government corruption. Governments are captured, each for its own historical reasons, by different industries. Australia by mining industries, the US by medical & finance,…

Adding onto this, Canada has pretty much the same amount of banks (about 5 big ones that completely dominate the industry) but unlike the US, have worked together for decades to create their own interbank network, Interac ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac ). The network handles most ATMs, direct debits, e-transfers and online transactions, and the last two I think have been available for over 10 years now. Ever…

I haven't been to the US since 2010, but at least at that point it felt like going backwards in time with respect to banking, mobile networks & any dealings I had with government agencies.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#125
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving from Australia to Canada/US felt like going back in time 20 years when it came to banking. Even ten years ago in Australia I could do more with my online banking than I can today in North America. Checks are for what now?

Checks are for what now? For me this week: Paid for a city license, paid the cat sitter, paid for a small magazine subscription, made a charitable donation, and paid the rent. The cat sitter and the charity were check only. No other option. The magazine has a PayPal option, but I don't trust PayPal. The city license could have been done with a card online, but I'm not interested in setting up yet another account with…

> For me this week: Paid for a city license, paid the cat sitter, paid for a small magazine subscription, made a charitable donation, and paid the rent.

Even ten years ago in Australia all of that was done through internet banking, and if I wanted to I could set it up to pay those automatically when the next bill came in (or not, it's up to me).

I've never written a check in my life (I'm 37), and whenever I get one I laugh and am shocked people still use them.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#126
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving from Australia to Canada/US felt like going back in time 20 years when it came to banking. Even ten years ago in Australia I could do more with my online banking than I can today in North America. Checks are for what now?

I use checks all the time actually. Every other form of payment online is “pull”, I only want to “push” my funds to external people.

Sorry if I'm out-of-date, but how do checks work online?

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#127
post #94
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's same day ACH, but I have no idea how widespread it is yet: https://www.nacha.org/same-day-ach-resource-center Anecdotally, I recently moved my banking to a discount broker and my paycheck is now credited to my account the night before. I don't know if that has anything to do with same-day ACH. Also anecdotally, Ally takes 5 business days (!) to open a CD via ACH even for an already verified bank. Definitely f…

Businesses use ACH extensively to pay each other same-day (and debit consumer bank accounts). But it has never caught on for consumer "push" payments.

For the better since ACH is woefully insecure.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#128
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I pay all my bills by bank transfer (house, electric, internet, settlements with friends etc). It's the most common payment method here (I'm in Europe). PayPal et al are barely used here because the bank transfer system is free and frictionless.

I'm guessing, but I think most people probably give the electric company permission to pull the money from their account (direct debit) rather than reviewing the bill and "pushing" the money every time. There are very strong guarantees in the individual's favour if the company makes a mistake.

Although, you need your bank to actually fulfil the guarantee, depending on how terrible your bank's customer service is, this may be a lot of trouble.

I've actually done this (use the DD Guarantee to unwind bill payments I didn't want paid) with my good bank and it was a pleasure, no trouble at all. But I can imagine that a bank with bad customer service is going to make it a nightmare that will suck up hours of your life.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#129
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use checks all the time actually. Every other form of payment online is “pull”, I only want to “push” my funds to external people.

That's not actually correct. By giving an external person a check, you give them the ABILITY to PULL funds from you. It looks like a push, but it's actually not. https://www.bankrate.com/financing/banking/writing-checks-in...

They probably meant a fire-and-forget method to pay untrusted parties without giving them the ability to charge more than agreed.

Chargebacks are a thing, but they require constant vigilance and the occasional bureaucratic task.

Re: What Happens When You ACH a Dead Person?

#130
post #117
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you send it to an email address that doesn't exist, does the transfer go through? If so who ends up with the money? It's been a while since I sent funds to a new address but I am pretty sure my bank's UI provided protection against that, and now when I send future funds to the same account, I just pick them from a drop down box instead of entering it manually.

No - it’s more dangerous with a phone number, which is how I usually send/receive. Much, much safer way to use Zelle is to ask the receiver to request a payment from you and then accept the request.

That's a good idea in both cases.

Although I'm guilty of just sending funds direct but only through email addresses which I usually copy / paste straight from what someone wrote to me.

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