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Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

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Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#121

Post by hnModsRDanger »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #33

Lots of Apple apologists in this thread. (1) They deliberately design new proprietary adapters, eschewing already popular and capable standards, in new devices - to sell you more shit (2) They remove support for existing standards (e.g. headphone jacks) - to sell you more shit (3) They file lawsuits against third-party repair providers who do a demonstrably better job than first-party repairs - to sell you more shit…

I have no idea how they became second/third place in computers, but they definitely have left a terrible legacy for developers to deal with.

Moving away from Apple means significantly lower development costs, and more time on universal platforms.

I'm not sure why someone would buy an Apple product outside the Fashion statement, but they have set the industry back from a software POV.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#122

Post by benzoate »

Sir_Cmpwn wrote: post #112
benzoate wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To my knowledge those described have some distinct advantage over what was available on the market at the time. Firewire was way faster, ADC carries USB, Thunderbolt is connected to PCIe, mini-vga and mini-dvi are self explanatory and their proprietary SATA like connection was, again, way faster.

Their proprietary SATA was just SATA with a wrong connector. It was not faster. Firewire was faster at the expense of massive security holes. A practical reason for having Thunderbolt connected to PCIe never materialized. Don't kid yourself - Apple made these calls for one reason and one reason only.

There are external GPUs now that use thunderbolt, prior to this you could run external displays at a greater resolution than was available via HDMI at the time.

Firewire was mostly not used because people were content to endure USB, and USB had a larger availability on consumer hardware. Apple gained nothing by spending money to add the port to their computers so I find it hard to buy that they had a secret malevolent purpose in doing so. In this case they rolled the dice on a superior solution and it didn’t pay off.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#123

Post by liability »

lloeki wrote: post #64
kuzehanka wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cool story. But when I get a replacement battery pulled from a brand new iphone with the 3rd party repairer providing warranty on their work, I still have no way to make that message go away other than to pay Apple's extortion fees.

Fun local fact: unless you order your battery at iFixit and DIY, it’s cheaper to go to the Apple Store to change an iPhone battery than any of the repair shops nearby.

Fun reality check: for many people, going to an Apple store means driving several hours, or even purchasing a plane ticket. Any reasonable accounting of that would massively inflate the cost of 1st party repair.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#124

Post by [deleted] »

puranjay wrote: post #24

I'm done with Apple. How can a computer company knowingly ship a product with a keyboard that breaks within a few months for three whole generations? Mine lasted just 4 months and I was advised to invest in a silicone cover for it. Which is absurd for a $1500 laptop. And they made it sound like it was just a minor issue - "oh everything works great except the keyboard". As if a laptop without a keyboard isn't practic…

[deleted]

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#125

Post by gruez »

puranjay wrote: post #24

I'm done with Apple. How can a computer company knowingly ship a product with a keyboard that breaks within a few months for three whole generations? Mine lasted just 4 months and I was advised to invest in a silicone cover for it. Which is absurd for a $1500 laptop. And they made it sound like it was just a minor issue - "oh everything works great except the keyboard". As if a laptop without a keyboard isn't practic…

>And Windows has been painfully slow and error prone, but no update has ever crippled my laptop as the last macOS update did my wife's Macbook Air.

You obviously haven't heard of botched Windows updates.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#126

Post by judge2020 »

seltzered_ wrote: post #102
judge2020 wrote: post #3

So Apple's take is probably: A bunch of people get mad when their iPhones stop working, start running slow, etc; research data shows that when they need a battery replaced, they're more likely to go to the local third party (non-authorized) repair shop and get it replaced. We have no idea how skilled or unskilled these repair shops are, even if they use genuine Apple batteries. Our best bet for maintaining the reputa…

I’d like to second the take on water resistance/ waterproofing. I overheard someone at a pool yesterday who bought a used iPhone that died after getting in the water with it. He mentioned buying it used. From my experience the water resistance is a very thin line of sticky black stuff that is easy to mess up after opening an iPhone. Im assuming the better repair shops use sticker sheets of new seal whenever a phone i…

> Im assuming the better repair shops use sticker sheets of new seal whenever a phone is opened.

This is my point at the end, a fair amount of repair shops do care about the phone, the customer, and doing things right, but there are probably a good amount that don't care and will cut as many corners as possible to increase profit.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#127

Post by sjwright »

viraptor wrote: post #117
sjwright wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google is the most popular smartphone platform. That's why they should be called out first. Samsung makes the most number of handsets. That's why they should be called out first. Apple likes their products to look pretty. That's why they should be called out first. Microsoft is a convicted monopolist. That's why they should be called out first. Xiaomi are evil Chinese copycats. That's why they should be called out fi…

Then please do. Instead of doing this in comments about one company releasing anti-repair tech, post your information about the others. List their issues. Summarise why their products are hostile to third party support. Help people make informed decisions. "There are other companies just as bad" is whataboutism, not informative.

> "There are other companies just as bad" is whataboutism

As someone who specifically polices whataboutism in a fairly large online community, I plead for you to not dilute the importance of that word. Asserting a double standard is not whataboutism.

It would have been whataboutism if I was saying "Stop criticising Apple because Company X is just as bad!" Rather I'm suggesting we be more aware of inconsistencies in dishing out criticism where it is warranted.

Apple didn't invent unrepairable electronics and they're not even the best at it—they just so happened to combine their weak efforts with aggressive miniturisation, giving the appearance of being more repair-hostile than they really are. Meanwhile Nintendo's use of the tri-wing predates Apple's pentalobe by decades. And the latest iPhones get a repairability score of 6 out of 10 by iFixit.

To be clear Apple is repair-hostile, but it's because of their non-existent parts supply chain—not because of "purposefully repair-hostile" engineering.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#128

Post by benologist »

pentae wrote: post #55
puranjay wrote: post #24

I'm done with Apple. How can a computer company knowingly ship a product with a keyboard that breaks within a few months for three whole generations? Mine lasted just 4 months and I was advised to invest in a silicone cover for it. Which is absurd for a $1500 laptop. And they made it sound like it was just a minor issue - "oh everything works great except the keyboard". As if a laptop without a keyboard isn't practic…

It's put a big stain on them in the last few years thats for sure. That being said, at least the keyboard replacement program is basically a free extended warranty on the keyboard if they didn't have that I think the situation would be far more aggravating. I'm more pissed that they dropped USB-A about 5-7 years too soon.

The keyboard replacement program just forestalls the class action that will force Apple to do right by affected customers in about 20 years. They will fight hard for their expressed right to knowingly sell faulty hardware, or lemons as they're sometimes called in consumer laws prohibiting that. They will devote millions to preserving the option to ignore and lie about hardware faults for the first 1 - 2 years.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#129

Post by magashna »

ChickeNES wrote: post #48
temporaryvector wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Would you want to know if the home you were buying was wired by a licensed electrician No, not really. I'd want it inspected, of course, but that's about it. Same with buying used cars. If the house wiring or my used car fucks ups, I'm safe in the knowledge that I can just hire someone to fix it for a reasonable price, and I can be reasonably confident that they'll do a decent job because the knowledge and the parts…

I think you miss my point. The average person just wants their phone fixed, not to be able to fix it themselves. And they want to have confidence it was done right. Also, a fun fact: an iPhone XR replacement battery is $80USD from iFixit (the only vendor I'd trust) vs $69 for out-of-warranty replacement from Apple themselves, labor included.

Being able to fix a battery used to be as simple as popping it open and putting in a new battery, rather than having an Apple "Genius" hold my hand and whisper sweet nothings while they charge me an exorbitant amount for the most basic of fixes.

Re: Rotten Apple: Right to Repair Roundup

#130

Post by vile_wretch »

bubblethink wrote: post #56
ChickeNES wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no use for conspiratorial ramblings. Again, how do you propose protecting consumers from faulty batteries? This goes beyond Apple to other devices, for example vaporizers, which have caused burns and even deaths from improper use of batteries not designed for end-user replacement.

You can implement genuineness checks for equipment without requiring a stooge to install the equipment for you. The car industry does it, and cars are much more likely to kill you. Other electronics with batteries do it too. Nothing about a phone is unique. Again, this is mostly a problem of education. If it takes me 5 comments on HN to explain that you are capabale of replacing a battery, it's a lost cause.

You're far less likely to find a cheap counterfeit aftermarket battery than you would Kirkland or Bosch or something, which comes with way more assurance than a random no-name lithium ion battery that has been hacked to appear new and healthy and which is capable of exploding while firmly placed near your waist.
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