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US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

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Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#121

Post by mattmcknight »

mlonkibjuyhv wrote: post #102
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't caused by any specific humidity levels. While it is depositing water droplets on to the glass surface, that same water is normally suspended harmlessly in the air (it is effectively de-humidifying the air onto the cold windows). It is caused by the glass's surface temperature being much lower than the air temperature inside the car. Humans are warm. The air we breath is warm. We're heating up the interior of…

I think knowing the temperatures and such amounts to predicting the foggy state. Detecting it could look much different. Visual observation is obvious. With purpose built glass, perhaps one could look at electrical properties on the inside of the windshield. Maybe changes in the reflectivity of the glass could be used. Maybe some refractive index shenanigans?

This seems like a simpler route. Why not just a camera pointed at a test mark on the windshield that checks if it is visible through the glass?

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#122

Post by BurningFrog »

hrktb wrote: post #24
rossdavidh wrote: post #2

You know, I think touchscreens are not preferable unless you need/want to be able to have controls for many different systems in the same space (e.g. a smartphone with multiple apps). If you are needing a dedicated control for a high-stakes system, the fact that it's a more modern-looking interface should not matter. Touchscreens are inherently inferior to a mechanical interface, if it's a single-system (i.e. doesn't…

As with everything it depends. Throwing a whole category of input under the bus because it failed when we tried in some uses would be short-sighted. Especially as we’ve had touchscreens for less than a few decades. > inherently inferior / single-system From the top of my head, maps work better on touchscreens. Navigating document trees. Making elements link together, group them. And there must be hundreds of uses not…

Right. For anything dynamic, an interface that can redraw itself in milliseconds has enormous advantages over mechanical knobs and levers.

For managing permanent properties, I think mechanical interfaces are the best option, though of course vastly more costly.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#123

Post by reilly3000 »

The very idea of a touchscreen on a ship is mindboggling, at least to a landlubber. Ships are on oceans. Oceans are kinda famous for making things tip around, as are torpedoes, collisions, and such. I can't fathom trying to press the CORRECT area on a touchscreen during a critical situation when I may have just been abruptly knocked aside moments earlier.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#124

Post by minitoar »

droithomme wrote: post #101
jakear wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is why I detest touchscreens for most car functions. Specifically AC, with old fashioned knobs I have full control over AC without taking my eyes off the road, but nowadays everyone wants to put it on their infotainment system, hidden beneath 4 other buttons.

> I detest touchscreens for most car functions Agreed. I consider them dangerous, a threat to public safety, they should be banned by the NTSB, and some cars that use them should be under recall to retrofit them with mechanical controls. Many states are now passing hands free laws that criminalize the use of phones or any other devices that use your hands while driving. The states provide exceptions for car touch scr…

This is a good idea but a recall is too much for this to be practical. At least the NTSB should be doing this for all new cars.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#125

Post by z2 »

jaclaz wrote: post #74
liability wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because when the sensor goes screwy I don't want my car to start flipping shit like the defroster on when it's not needed? Because manual controls make such automation totally unnecessary? Because even if the automated system were designed to be "fail safe", the state that's 'safe' is actually context dependent, therefore manual controls will be necessary anyway? It ain't broke, so stop trying to 'fix' it.

>It ain't broke, so stop trying to 'fix' it. Sure, but the marketing department had to fill a few blanks in the "bad weather options pack" (optional but casually installed on all cars in production that will be available in the next six-eight months) for a mere US$ 3,000: 1) self-learning wipers (using AI to set automatically an appropriate wiping speed, including economode, that only wipes the right side of the wind…

I hope you make an artistic statement and patent some of these awesome ideas. 1) for conversation starter purposes, and 2) so that we can make sure auto manufacturers never actually do this, or at least you get fabulously rich in the process...

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#126

Post by cletus »

da_chicken wrote: post #118
cletus wrote: post #110

Great. If only monitor manufacturers would do the same thing. I have a monitor with exactly 2 inputs (1 DP, 1 HDMI). What do I need to do to switch between them? 1. Press the Menu button 2. Move the option to Input Source 3. Select Input Source 4. Move from one to the other 5. Press Select Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with…

> Some monitor will compress 1-3 into a single Input Source option. Still, 3 presses? Why does literally NO ONE make a monitor with hardware input source buttons? WHY? Because they want to use essentially the same chassis case when they have 2 inputs or 20, and they have dozens of models over the life of the tooling to support. It's much easier to swap out the die for the backplate or to use a snap in backplate than…

So this reminds me of a joke. There are only 3 numbers software engineers care about: 0, 1 and 2^32.

The point of this joke is that as soon as the number of "things" (in this case input sources) is >1, someone somewhere starts looking at solutions as if that number might be 5, 10, 100, 1000, 1 million. Most monitors will have less than 5. Some will have up to 10. This number is known when you make the monitor.

Just let me buy a monitor with hardware input selection.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#127

Post by dustingetz »

rossdavidh wrote: post #2

You know, I think touchscreens are not preferable unless you need/want to be able to have controls for many different systems in the same space (e.g. a smartphone with multiple apps). If you are needing a dedicated control for a high-stakes system, the fact that it's a more modern-looking interface should not matter. Touchscreens are inherently inferior to a mechanical interface, if it's a single-system (i.e. doesn't…

Google Maps

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#128

Post by IgorPartola »

dantillberg wrote: post #92
Someone1234 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't caused by any specific humidity levels. While it is depositing water droplets on to the glass surface, that same water is normally suspended harmlessly in the air (it is effectively de-humidifying the air onto the cold windows). It is caused by the glass's surface temperature being much lower than the air temperature inside the car. Humans are warm. The air we breath is warm. We're heating up the interior of…

Yes, but could we maybe get a decent approximation of the windshield temperature from interior temperature, exterior temperature, and speed? Combined with interior/exterior humidity (maybe these gauges might be the expensive/finicky part of this project?), we could calculate a probability of window fogging. It doesn't have to be perfect -- we can have it just turn on the defrost whenever the probability of window fog…

You could do one of two things. First, a heated windshield like I believe some Landrovers have. It’s about $5000 to replace, last I heard, but it works. Second, a double pane windshield like house windows or some motorcycle helmet face shields. These work 100% of the time, but would definitely be more expensive as well.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#129

Post by IgorPartola »

leetcrew wrote: post #52
ocdtrekkie wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honest question: Why don't modern cars yet monitor humidity in and outside the car and make the correct decisions to keep your windows clear? Why are we focusing on self-driving cars while our cars are too dumb to do this much on their own?

on the other hand, AC is one of the only electronic features that causes a meaningful hit to fuel economy (and available power, if you have a weak engine). I very much prefer to decide for myself when it turns on.

Your car likely already turns off the AC when you accelerate hard. Most of them do that.

Re: US Navy will replace touchscreen with mechanical controls on its destroyers

#130

Post by SilasX »

qrbLPHiKpiux wrote: post #91
Kapura wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is absolutely correct. Humans are physical creatures living in a physical world and our brains have evolved to interact with that world in a physical way. Touch-screen interfaces, even good ones, necessitate a level of mental abstraction, which is going to make operating in a fatigued state even more difficult.

To add, we're analog creatures. For a human to interface with anything digital, we need to drop what we’re doing and fully engage the touch interface. Dangerous when driving, or similar. With analog interfaces, our hands know exactly where to go and what to do just on feel, keeping attention elsewhere. I’m glad the DOD made this decision and I hope others will follow. Just because you can chip it doesn’t mean you sho…

Heh, I just had a vision of some car manufacturer making the steering controlled by a touch screen. (Is there a reason that that would already be illegal?)
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