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IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

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Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#121
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no reason to discontinue their mainframe business. Banks and other institutions have applications running successfully on those platforms. The industry has learned that it is better to integrate applications than to replace—especially when the replacement is a 40 year old app that runs the business. IBM’s mainframe margins are safe for decades to come.

But, don’t you see the paradox there? If customers are happy with their mainframe why would they switch to Red Hat? And if they don’t want to switch why did IBM buy it?

mainframes can run rhel vms which are basically standard rhel installs that you assign RAM/CPU/storage to, with the benefits of mainframe hardware (eg. massive I/O bandwidth) so you can be happy with your mainframe because you are running rhel on it :)

But realistically mainframes are a small part of IBMs business so there are lots of reasons for IBM to buy Red Hat that are entirely unrelated to mainframes or POWER hardware

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#122
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM products have no license-checking built in, on purpose. They want you to make more copies than your negotiated license agreement allows. Then, when the auditor comes in, they charge you the sky-high list price, backdating it as well.

That's a little over-cynical, IMHO. They don't have licensing in the products because it's an overhead, it complicates development, and their enterprise customers are supposed to be trustworthy and in communication with IBM about ongoing requirements. But yes, they have auditors to enforce this stuff.

Not exactly. Keep in mind the people using the products in a large enterprise are not, generally, the people who have to pay for it. If you break these two people into their respective, high level, org groups it will generally be: procurement and engineering.

IMO it's not that the engineering group is trying to not be trustworthy. It's that they have a job to do and IBM knows that this is their goal. So if we let engineering do their job, uninhibited, then there's a high chance that if the product is useful to do that they'll keep expanding it's reach internally (land and expand). This is just a slightly different spin on how the vendor allows the end user client to use their product. It's very likely the agreement between IBM and the enterprise client clearly spells this out. However, since the client is bound to pay for overages in arrears they are now at the mercy of not having as much leverage in price negotiations. A smart customer will predefine usage level bands as it pertains to discounts. For example if we're using 10k seats of RHEL we get 10% off list, 20k seats @ 20%, etc.

The disconnect is that procurement is likely disconnected from engineering for the better part between audits and they're not well prepared to have the after-the-fact negotiation to true up licensing. IBM, and others, bank on this by selling the value the customer is receiving from said products in use. The disconnect here is that had IBM enforced hard license limits the organization may say that the product is too expensive and look for an alternative because the customer is forced to buy more licensing mid-budget cycle. It's harder to rip out or change 20k installations of RHEL than it is 10k. Vendors know this and leverage this consequence of using this approach to keep the customer on the ball and chain.

So we have an enterprise that doesn't plan or communicate with itself very well and a vendor who puts out the all you can eat buffet to the hungry engineers. It's not technically wrong, and if an enterprise gets burned by it technically it's their own fault. Is it by design? For sure and my guess is that this type of model pays dividends all while being on the up and up.

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forgive my ignorance,but what is an IBM auditor?

IBM products have no license-checking built in, on purpose. They want you to make more copies than your negotiated license agreement allows. Then, when the auditor comes in, they charge you the sky-high list price, backdating it as well.

But RedHat is painfully license driven. So much so, that even if you pay for RH, you would be tempted to use CentOS just to avoid the annoying tooling and infrastructure that RH has built to do license checks.

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The overnight rate does not effect real long term rates, they are fucking inverted. Real rates are set by return on capital (plus inflation for nominal rates) in the long end. Pensions and retirement funds are only affected by the overnight rates in so much they use hold short term reserves as cash equivalents. > Stock prices inflated in such a way are not supported by fundamentals Inflation - what your describing, m…

> The overnight rate does not effect real long term rates, they are fucking inverted. The federal funds rate greatly affects credit rates, that's why it's a primary instrument in financial policy. > Pensions and retirement funds are only affected by the overnight rates in so much they use hold short term reserves as cash equivalents. That's the direct effect, but because all other credit rates are affected, so are co…

Gold only broke out two months ago. For the most part it has been around 120 for over five years. And this is probably a consequence of all the trade issues as we get ready for less trade from tariffs.

But the fed doesn't control long term rates (probably wish it did). The short end is heavily driven by technical factors including the overnight rate (even then that is only a target and it doesn't anyways follow what the fed wished it was). The long end isn't the same. It is driven by return on capital (higher returns both seek out loans and can afford to pay more for them).

If there was long term mispricing we would see it in the tips market, and we don't. The research shows the opposite - been little arbitrage exists in the market and it is extremely well allocated.

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM products have no license-checking built in, on purpose. They want you to make more copies than your negotiated license agreement allows. Then, when the auditor comes in, they charge you the sky-high list price, backdating it as well.

Ah, reminds me of Oracle.

A common conspiracy theory floated at a previous dayjob was that Oracle does no license checking because you're not going to get far into the operation and maintenance without Oracle DBAs/engineers around anyways.

After seeing how clunky some of the tooling is (sqlplus is downright byzantine for no good reason), I have to wonder...

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#127
post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a little over-cynical, IMHO. They don't have licensing in the products because it's an overhead, it complicates development, and their enterprise customers are supposed to be trustworthy and in communication with IBM about ongoing requirements. But yes, they have auditors to enforce this stuff.

Not exactly. Keep in mind the people using the products in a large enterprise are not, generally, the people who have to pay for it. If you break these two people into their respective, high level, org groups it will generally be: procurement and engineering. IMO it's not that the engineering group is trying to not be trustworthy. It's that they have a job to do and IBM knows that this is their goal. So if we let eng…

> The disconnect here is that had IBM enforced hard license limits the organization may say that the product is too expensive and look for an alternative because the customer is forced to buy more licensing mid-budget cycle.

Also, things can go wrong with automated license enforcement, and at large enterprise scale, that would be costly to the customer (and therefore IBM as they'd be summarily replaced). I can already imagine the HN headlines: "Flights grounded due to BGP mishap knocking IBMs license servers offline", "HDD failure costs $CORP $8.6M/day after IBM DRM prevents installation of replacement cluster"

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wtf. Ok thanks for posting. I will never use any RedHat product ever again.

The alternative is paying for the software you're using. If you don't want to pay for for-pay software, there's plenty of no-cost Linux distros available.

It appears that

1. The audits can take considerable time and resources to complete (effectively, an extra cost)

2. The audits can be wrong, which sounds like a nightmare to deal with ([1])

As such, avoiding Redhat even if you are "paying for the software you're using" may still seem like a good idea.

----

[1] Answer in the FAQ about incorrect audits

> First, it is vital to carefully review the audit findings in detail. IBM's customers often do not receive all the license credit they are entitlted to, and IBM typically will agree to modify its initial demands if there is a mistake in the calucations. Sometimes, IBM’s compliance teams often do not have a complete file of all license agreements that an audited company may have signed. In many cases, the negotiated terms of a license agreement can include alternative counting rules or other variables that change the way license requirements are determined for certain products. If the auditors are unaware of those terms, then the calculated audit discrepancies likely will be inflated and erroneous.

Re: IBM Stops Buybacks to Pay for Red Hat

#129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The alternative is paying for the software you're using. If you don't want to pay for for-pay software, there's plenty of no-cost Linux distros available.

The problem with these audits is that the exact licensing conditions can be vague, or the audit points to something that is in compliance, but might not be (e.g. you're licensed for 8 cores, but your replacement servers have 12 cores, you still only need the 8 cores so you disable 4 cores in the bios ... well, they will say, for all we know you only disabled those cores when we came to do the audit ... so now you owe…

The IBM licenses are so obtuse that it can only be intentional. This may be outdated, but they used to use these stupid “processor units” that had some loose correlation to CPU performance. If a perfectly well-intentioned systems person moved licensed software to some new server that had half the cores, but was on a newer generation CPU, and didn’t think to ask the lawyers about it, you could get tagged for huge bucks. I will never buy IBM software ever again if I can go to any reasonable length to avoid it. RHATs licensing seems not to be moving to the IBM model yet, but I’m frightened.
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