Terminating Service for 8Chan • Hacker News Board

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#121

Post by elliekelly » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

icpmacdo wrote: post #23

"the speed with which tech cos change after a bad PR cycle seems like solid proof that none of this is abt principles but abt trying to keep from making hard choices as long as possible. earlier today they argued that keeping 8chan within its network is a “moral obligation”" https://twitter.com/cwarzel/status/1158193462459506693

Where did CloudFlare make or where was CloudFlare quoted as making the “moral obligation” argument? That just looks like a random tweet to me.

Edit: Looks like CEO comment to the Guardian earlier today

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2019/aug/04/mass-shoo...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#122

Post by quietthrow » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

How come Twitter is not is trouble for enabling (or being A loudspeaker for) people that riles up other people, fuels their fire and so on.

Trying to understand this from a ethics and philosophical perspective. Appreciate your comments.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#123

Post by FemmeAndroid » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #106

FemmeAndroid wrote: post #49

This is great news. There will be lots of people who are frustrated by this. They may say that Cloudflare shouldn't remove content unless they are legally required. Or that a CDN like Cloudflare is a platform layer, deep in the stack, and that it shouldn't be making decisions based on content. That they are a essentially a utility, and that they should provide the the same service to everyone. But at the end of the d…

>That doesn't mean they must block every potentially bad actor. Unfortunately obligatory "I don't support 8chan". I dislike this idea that people can stomp their feet and demand CloudFlare kick off "bad actors". Who is to say the bad actor of tomorrow won't be the "good actor" of today. CloudFlare and other internet utilities should remain apolitical tools that leave law enforcement to law enforcement (even that is a…

It's for each privately controlled platform to decide.

If you want tools that are open for everyone, create a public utility that must comply with the first amendment.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#124

Post by cyberferret » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

tomlockwood wrote: post #92

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

All around the world people listen to and see the same news stories. I woke up yesterday thinking that the media was reporting on the same mass shooting, but I figured out it was another new and predictably American assault rifle massacre pretty quickly.

I don't know why you are getting downvoted. It is the same here. Every time I see a US city name in my Twitter sidebar here in Australia, I just know that it is another mass shooting without having to click.

I hate that it has become so common now that I have just stopped clicking to find out more about them. This sort of thing used to horrify me, but nowadays I just feel so numb about it, and that scares me because I feel that I am becoming less empathetic and more cynical.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#125

Post by ambicapter » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

chroma wrote: post #67

doctorpangloss wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but Cloudflare needs talented engineers, and talented engineers don’t sign up to serve clients like 8chan. Software doesn’t run on one person’s contrarian politics.

Cloudflare serves many odious sites, such as https://godhatesfags.com/ . They only terminate service when some site gets a lot of heat in the news. I like to think I'm a pretty talented engineer. I've avoided using Cloudflare and I've avoided applying to them because of their wishy-washy stance on censorship. They are a utility. PG&E doesn't terminate electricity service based on what was said on a property. So too s…

> They are a utility.

They are not even close to a utility.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#126

Post by saagarjha » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:33 AM UTC

King-Aaron wrote: post #56

A lot of not-so-subtle support for 8chan leaking into this thread. Cloudfare aren't a government. They aren't a democracy. I don't know why some people seem to think they should act any differently. If you own a notice board in the real world, and someone put something horrible on it, you would take it down. This is no different.

The problem is that Cloudflare keeps trying to position themselves as not being in the business of deciding what can be on the internet, but they have twice made the decision to do so. Also, since you mentioned it and hence made this disclaimer obligatory: I have zero sympathy for 8chan, and I don't agree with the views espoused there.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#127

Post by wallace_f » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

briantakita wrote: post #80

cromwellian wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you read the killer's message? It amounted to "Tomorrows the day!" With no actionable information otherwise.

Perhaps the authorities will closely monitor people who make obscure & dramatic claims online. There's probably an effective scoring system & NLP in place anyways. We think "social credit" only applies to China...

I don't get it, either. Even New Zealand deep-state spy bureaucrats followed around a pro-democracy protestor just to win some favor with the Fijian government. These systems are already abused like this. The Intercept runs a series called Trial and Terror where they pick up on people like this so we know they are doing it. How is NZ following around a pro-democracy protestor and not the NZ shooter? Let's hope it is incompetence. Source, btw: https://theintercept.com/2016/08/14/nsa-gcsb-prism-surveilla...

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#128

Post by untog » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

sysbin wrote: post #96

Lazare wrote: post #15

On the one hand, I like the idea of a free, open, and distributed internet, where no one company or government has the power to control what is distributed or discussed. As the great John Gilmore said, more aspirationally than accurately even then: "The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it." On the other hand, we don't live in that world, and I don't know how well it would work in practice if we d…

>Given that, this seems like a reasonable exercise of that power, and that's about the best we can hope for. Maybe, this event may become the precedent for all future hosting providers of unpopular opinions and where denial of service attacks become used against these hosting providers. Losing protection from anti-ddos service(s) becomes a process to eliminate the unpopular opinions being expressed. I think this is d…

> Maybe, this event may become the precedent for all future hosting providers of unpopular opinions

Maybe it won't!

I feel like every time a controversial site gets shut down message boards are flooded with slippery slope arguments, but by and large I haven't seen it ever transpire.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#129

Post by Erudire_Genius » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

zzzeek wrote: post #102

umvi wrote: post #34

It would be better if cloudflare terminated service for all media outlets. Every time you turn a mass shooting into a national spectacle, it inspires copycats in rapid succession as we've just seen. Mass shootings (generally) don't kill that many people. They are scary, yes, but not that deadly (statistically). Keep it local news, don't publish the name of the killer, basically keep the story away from the front line…

by not reporting on it, the public is not made aware of this very tragic problem which can in fact be improved by several orders of magnitude with the return of some simple political will. Political will requires media publicity, so in that sense, the media is doing the right thing here.

Spoken like a true fascist.

Re: Terminating Service for 8Chan

#130

Post by devmunchies » Mon, Aug 05, 2019, 2:34 AM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #110

ALittleLight wrote: post #91

When I was younger I thought I was a few speech absolutist. Then I went to where was free speech was absolute and saw what was discussed. Now I favor moderation.

>When I was younger I thought I was a few speech absolutist. Then I went to where was free speech was absolute and saw what was discussed. Now I favor moderation. How do you determine what speech is "good" and what speech is "bad"? I feel like there is no absolute way to determine this. (I am being genuine in asking, I want to know what caused this change and how you see "free speech") All speech is good in my opinio…

>8chan is supporting these actions

You don’t know anything about the chans if you think 8chan collectively supports shootings.