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Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

sciencedaily.com

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Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#121
post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. I don't usually express my opinions on nutrition, metabolism and/or health in general in the open, because I know they go against what is currently mainstream and they would be met (as elsewhere in this submission) with extreme resistance. I can't blame the others, though, as I once was in their same position and know how it feels when deeply ingrained ideas are challenged from the outside. I have learned to liv…

Thank you for this. This is very helpful both practically and emotionally. I also try not to say a word about my beliefs. That was much easier before having children who are offered carbohydrates constantly.

You're very welcome.

Even though I have no children, I can try to imagine what it feels like.

My paternal grandfather died of complications from uncontrolled, insulin-dependent type 2 diabetes. He spent his last years half-blind, unable to move, filled with ulcers and missing several toes.

My father has been hovering around the prediabetic range for many years now, and I live a 5-hour drive away from him. Effectively, he is like a child, with no knowledge of nutrition or metabolism, trying to find his way in a world dominated by a food industry that doesn't have public health anywhere in its objectives.

But it's not just the food industry, although they might have the monopoly of malice in this context. Guess what the diet prescribed by his primary care provider looked like once he was deemed prediabetic. Motherfucking biscuits for breakfast, pasta or rice with lean meat, sugar-laden fruit juice... but counting calories! Exactly the opposite of what I have finally convinced him to eat by chipping away on every holiday visit. He's not exactly following a ketogenic diet, but at least he is starting to figure out what sugar, starch and seed oils do to people, and how the blame was shifted onto the wrong substances (saturated fat and salt, basically). He is even giving intermittent fasting a go!

It's hard when you know that the potential suffering of a loved one is perfectly avoidable with just the right pieces of information.

As you might have guessed, having type 2 diabetes in my immediate ancestry (also in my maternal family) was one of the reasons that led me down the rabbit hole. I now treat nutrition and its effect on health and metabolism sort of like a hobby. I guess there is a component of biohacking in there as well.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#122
post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“carbohydrate“ is extremely bad term in nutrition. There is fundamental difference between eating whole food plants like potatoes or drinking sugary drinks. Yet both are formally carbohydrates.

What do you think potato starch is metabolized into in your body? Starting in your mouth (salivary amylase).

Potato is not just starch. In fact per calory potato is very dense nutritional wise with all that fiber, minerals and vitamins. In addition there is speed of absorption which for starches is much lower than for simple sugar. Plus starch metabolizes as glucose while table sugar and friends contains 50% fructose.

Which points to an elephant in the room that people miss when use the term carbs. It is the similarity between whole-food plant-based and various forms of keto. They both avoids simple sugars and processed flour mixed with refined seed oils or saturated fats.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#123
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think potato starch is metabolized into in your body? Starting in your mouth (salivary amylase).

Potato is not just starch. In fact per calory potato is very dense nutritional wise with all that fiber, minerals and vitamins. In addition there is speed of absorption which for starches is much lower than for simple sugar. Plus starch metabolizes as glucose while table sugar and friends contains 50% fructose. Which points to an elephant in the room that people miss when use the term carbs. It is the similarity betw…

Bananas and dates (to name a few fruits) are plants, are whole foods, and are filled with fructose.

A single potato with skin has 6 grams of fiber and around 60 grams of starch.

As for the vitamins and minerals, the only thing found in a relevant amount in potatoes is potassium. Contrast this with eggs, organ meat or even muscle meat.

What would you say is the problem with saturated fat?

Also, out of curiosity, are you vegan?

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#124
post #114
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough. But this happens in every biologically relevant discussion.. Every time results are reported on mice, someone will criticize that it wasn't done on humans, as if biologists are complete ignoramuses and not intimately familiar with the strengths and limitations of their own science. If an engineer presented a model of a bridge and someone jumped in to say "buh, but you didn't ACTUALLY BUILD the bridge so…

It's allowed in the sense that people are allowed to be wrong and/or ignorant because that's what most of us are on most topics. We can't stop that any more than King Canute could stop the waves. The important question is, what's the best way to handle it if we want to have an internet forum that doesn't suck? Experience teaches that the answer is: the patient supply of correct information by people who do know about…

King Canute was supposed to stop the tide, you couch alluder.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#125
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Potato is not just starch. In fact per calory potato is very dense nutritional wise with all that fiber, minerals and vitamins. In addition there is speed of absorption which for starches is much lower than for simple sugar. Plus starch metabolizes as glucose while table sugar and friends contains 50% fructose. Which points to an elephant in the room that people miss when use the term carbs. It is the similarity betw…

Bananas and dates (to name a few fruits) are plants, are whole foods, and are filled with fructose. A single potato with skin has 6 grams of fiber and around 60 grams of starch. As for the vitamins and minerals, the only thing found in a relevant amount in potatoes is potassium. Contrast this with eggs, organ meat or even muscle meat. What would you say is the problem with saturated fat? Also, out of curiosity, are y…

Yes, I am vegan.

As for saturated fat I have no idea what if any can be wrong with it from human health point of view. Literature and observational studies are contradictory and it all depends on the whole diet. But I do know from personal experience and from some hints from literature that mixing it or vegetable oil for that matter with highly processed starches or sugars is bad.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#126
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bananas and dates (to name a few fruits) are plants, are whole foods, and are filled with fructose. A single potato with skin has 6 grams of fiber and around 60 grams of starch. As for the vitamins and minerals, the only thing found in a relevant amount in potatoes is potassium. Contrast this with eggs, organ meat or even muscle meat. What would you say is the problem with saturated fat? Also, out of curiosity, are y…

Yes, I am vegan. As for saturated fat I have no idea what if any can be wrong with it from human health point of view. Literature and observational studies are contradictory and it all depends on the whole diet. But I do know from personal experience and from some hints from literature that mixing it or vegetable oil for that matter with highly processed starches or sugars is bad.

I expected that. Is it for health or for ethics?

Also, can you please address the other points in my previous comment?

Feel free to reply to any of my other comments in the thread if we have reached maximum depth.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#127
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I am vegan. As for saturated fat I have no idea what if any can be wrong with it from human health point of view. Literature and observational studies are contradictory and it all depends on the whole diet. But I do know from personal experience and from some hints from literature that mixing it or vegetable oil for that matter with highly processed starches or sugars is bad.

I expected that. Is it for health or for ethics? Also, can you please address the other points in my previous comment? Feel free to reply to any of my other comments in the thread if we have reached maximum depth.

I am vegan for ethical reasons. If one does it carefully, it is not worse than any diet with meat health-wise. So essentially killing animals for food is not necessary and one does it out for pleasure or out of laziness.

As for other points, most fruits are not particularly dense in calories and one needs to eat kilograms of them to consume 100 grams of fructose, which one can get from one bottle of sugary drink. Dates and dry fruits are exceptions, so to minimize fructose exposure one should not eat them in substantial quantities.

As for deficiency, consuming reasonable variety of starchy vegetables and grains with some greens without added oil provides all minerals and vitamins one can get from meat except for B12 as long as one gets enough calories. There are some individuals where a particular component is not absorbed efficiently if it comes from plants, but that is trivial to compensate with supplements. For example, I personally get low on iron (a family run condition) and has to supplement that either directly or indirectly by taking vitamin C with iron-rich vegetables or grains.

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#128

I have the feeling this has much more to do with our self inflicted lifestyle than genetic factors. Maybe no other animal is just that stupid.

> Maybe no other animal is just that stupid. Have you ever owned a cat or dog? My experience is that a percentage of them will overeat unless constantly monitored, eat things that are outright dangerous, etc. What is it that makes humans the stupid ones, here?

This is interesting. Growing up, we had chickens, sheep, goats, cows, horses, dogs, cats and rabbits. And an unfortunate sampling of salamanders, frogs, horny toads, chipmunks, gophers, wild-rabbits, foxes, coyotes, hawks (various types), eagles (a few types), skunks, deer, antelope, raccoons and badgers. (I'm probably missing a few - and I've certainly left out small birds, which require their own reading as do snakes)

Left to their own devices (they weren't each individually heavily supervised - especially when on the range), of the domesticated ones, the only ones that would gorge themselves to death were the horses (when they thought they were getting away with something), with the minor exception of the dogs (who might eat the other animal's grain-based food out of jealousy, and explode their gut because they ate the wrong food because of stupidity)

I did not find that, unmonitored, most animals would eat too much of the wrong type of food for too long (loco-weed for cows might be an exception - but that didn't kill them).

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#129
post #124
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's allowed in the sense that people are allowed to be wrong and/or ignorant because that's what most of us are on most topics. We can't stop that any more than King Canute could stop the waves. The important question is, what's the best way to handle it if we want to have an internet forum that doesn't suck? Experience teaches that the answer is: the patient supply of correct information by people who do know about…

King Canute was supposed to stop the tide, you couch alluder.

No, he was demonstrating to his fawning courtiers that he couldn't stop the tide. (Apologies in advance to the parent commenter @pvg if my irony / sarcasm detector is out of calibration.)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide

Re: Evolutionary gene loss may explain why only humans are prone to heart attack

#130
post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

King Canute was supposed to stop the tide, you couch alluder.

No, he was demonstrating to his fawning courtiers that he couldn't stop the tide. (Apologies in advance to the parent commenter @pvg if my irony / sarcasm detector is out of calibration.) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_Canute_and_the_tide

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