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Sacked by a Google algorithm

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Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#121
post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Also: If a sailor buys a sailing book by entering Amazon via my website, I get a 5 per cent referral fee. If some-one spends $200 on a Kindle or a camera, [they] get their next three month s subscription for free. That's definitely abuse of Amazon's affiliate program and crosses the line from click-fraud-ish to full blown criminal fraud. Aside from being against the terms of their scheme, his clear intention is to in…

While Google's customers ARE the advertisers and their first priority is to make sure they are protected, Google would sit up and do something if more website PUBLISHERS would complain. It's a business. However, as a practical issue, I fail to see any practical reason to disable the guy's revenue from YouTube videos, based on clicks from an unrelated site. Just stop counting the clicks on the site, Google!

He has control over those youtube videos, he should take them down, create all new accounts with his wifes information and then put up the truck videos and pretty soon youtube will put him back into advertising mix. For his other site, if I were him I would run Adbrite.com ads instead of Adwords ads.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#122
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don't be heartless. There are thousands of dollars being stolen from an honest cameraman and you don't think Google owes him one word from a real human? Honestly?

I'm the last guy in line to apologize for Google's attitude with regards to customer service, but to the extent my cynical blackened heart beats for anyone, it is the kayaking guy (et al) who paid those thousands of dollars and received no service in return for it. They have kids to put through school and Christmas presents to buy, too. He got a real human to look into his account, incidentally, which I would have ki…

I'm having trouble understanding what rule he broke. He had some content with ads on it chosen by Google's algorithms. People clicked those ads, then didn't buy anything from the advertiser. How is that his fault?

I don't mean this as a rhetorical question. I honestly want to know how someone with an ad-supported site can avoid such a situation.

Edit: elsewhere in the comments, I see that he was telling his viewers that clicking the ads gets him money. I agree, that's not fair to the advertisers.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#123
Selling Android apps in the Market? It's linked to AdSense too. So, if Google kills your website for AdSense abuse, you also won't get paid for your apps which are selling for $0.99.

If you get banned from web AdSense, you also get banned from Youtube and from selling apps in the Android Market.

That's an ugly monopoly.

(edit) source: http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/AdSense/thread?tid=590...

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#124

So, as an AdWords advertiser, here is my experience when someone gets "creative" with ways to encourage their audience to click on my ads: 1) I see a sudden spike in my daily spend and think "Yay, I'm going to get more customers!" 2) I go to Analytics and see a wave of people who spent seconds on the website and did not convert to the trial. 3) Google bills my credit card for hundreds of dollars. This has actually ha…

I believe the interesting issue here is not whether Mr. Winter was violating the terms of the agreement - but the manner in which violations are handled, and the absence of a meaningful "feedback loop" where users of the system could be warned and have the opportunity to modify their behavior to follow the rules. I assume the underlying cause for this is that the AdWords program is as automated and algorithmic as pos…

Not getting into this case in particular, but

> the manner in which violations are handled, and the absence of a meaningful "feedback loop" where users of the system could be warned and have the opportunity to modify their behavior to follow the rules.

Would also allow the bad guys to modify their behavior as well.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#125

So, as an AdWords advertiser, here is my experience when someone gets "creative" with ways to encourage their audience to click on my ads: 1) I see a sudden spike in my daily spend and think "Yay, I'm going to get more customers!" 2) I go to Analytics and see a wave of people who spent seconds on the website and did not convert to the trial. 3) Google bills my credit card for hundreds of dollars. This has actually ha…

3) Google bills my credit card for hundreds of dollars.

Did you complain? Were you issued a refund? I'm trying to understand how Google justifies withholding past earnings from the site owner and continuing to profit from the YouTube content. If they incur real costs from refunding advertisers, it makes some sense. But if they keep everyone's money, they have an incentive to abuse the system.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#126

So, as an AdWords advertiser, here is my experience when someone gets "creative" with ways to encourage their audience to click on my ads: 1) I see a sudden spike in my daily spend and think "Yay, I'm going to get more customers!" 2) I go to Analytics and see a wave of people who spent seconds on the website and did not convert to the trial. 3) Google bills my credit card for hundreds of dollars. This has actually ha…

First, you are not necessarily having the same experience as this guy's advertisers (who are catering to outdoors hobbyists rather than software consumers).

Second, this guy is being 'creative' by creating actual content which people want to watch. It's not like he's started with the idea of generating traffic spikes and then determined that the path to success is mini-documentaries about big trucks or coastal sailing. This guy is working just as hard as you, and just because he works with a camera instead of a computer you are taking a dump on him. Why are you talking about 'whackamole sites...worth a few tens of dollars a year,' when he was outlining a situation in which his Youtube content was worth at least $18,000 a year - I assume it is at least as profitable for Google as it was for him.

Third, have you ever bought billboard, magazine, or TV advertising, where people check out your business as a result but don't necessarily become customers? Have you ever had a brick and mortar business, where people walk in and look around but leave without buying anything? There's a reason for the phrase 'half the money you spend on advertising is wasted, but the problem is that nobody knows which half.' The problem with adwords and so forth is that because you [as a generic advertiser, not you personally) book, see traffic and get billed quickly, it's easy to see exactly whether a campaign is working or not, and then to assume that if it doesn't work it's always the result of fraud.

Some kinds of advertising campaign deliver large sales up front and a long tail, like movies and other consumer media. But those advertising campaigns cost a FORTUNE. If you hear that a film cost $100m to make and did $150m in business' what they usually mean is that it cost $10m to make, $40m was spent on some well-known movie stars whose 'brand' the audience trusts, and $50m was spent on the ad campaign. Spending 50% of the budget on marketing is the norm in the film business, and I imagine it's pretty similar in the music and book publishing fields. Other sorts of advertising are needed for brand building and reinforcement. You (generic you, again) don't have millions to spend so you have to accumulate like an oyster with a pearl. Inevitably, some of your ad buys get exploited by click fraudsters and you are understandably angry when this occurs, since it costs real money. Or it may be something wrong with the targeting or presentation of your message. To assume it must always be click fraud is ridiculous.

The #1 thing that makes me leave a website within seconds of landing (as a consumer) is where I'm on an attractive, well-designed site, see an interesting ad, but clicking on it brings me to an ugly, poorly-designed site. I associate visual ugliness with incompetence and/or fakery, so I'm more likely to think the target page is a work of fraud than the page where the advert appeared. I am no more likely to spend money there than I would in a dirty restaurant or a store without proper fixtures. Because it's easier to create an effective ad than an effective site, an ugly landing page is a red flag for the safety of my credit card. that is no more the fault of the ad host than actual click fraud is the fault of an advertiser.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#127

Relying on Google, or any other single source, for your income is the same as having an employer. This is just as true whether you run a Youtube channel or have a multimillion dollar B2B business with only one client (aka "boss"). Being in the content game is the easy part of the equation; ad sales is the hard part. You can take the easy road and join a network, making pennies on the dollar and potentially getting "s…

Anyone got advice on how to go out and do this? How to calculate fair prices?

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#128
post #89
post #13

For as many articles that there are about how great, smart, [fill in another positive adjective] Google is, I'm surprised that no news source has pointed out the ridiculous behavior of Google. Who else would you work with (i.e., display advertising for) without having the ability to speak to someone by telephone when a difficult situation has occurred? None of our customers would tolerate this -- why do we continue t…

Good point. With thousands of dollars at stake one ought to be able to speak to a human and have a reconciliation process.

Except, Google would then be in the customer service business. I’m not saying they couldn’t throw resources against that endeavor, but think of the time waste of being on the phone vs. having automated responses based on the keywords in someone’s complaint. Cuts down on time/cost from their POV. Not justifying what Google did, just sayin.

It's maddening though in a time when people -- one would hope -- would have access to better customer service, yet, it feels things are as bad as ever. It’s hard enough to reach someone on an e-commerce site, forget social networks (1-800-FACEBOOK ain’t happening anytime soon). Little different scenario in this case, but you get the gist.

The only time they seem to make it easy to reach out to a real person is when you need/want to buy something.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#129
post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm the last guy in line to apologize for Google's attitude with regards to customer service, but to the extent my cynical blackened heart beats for anyone, it is the kayaking guy (et al) who paid those thousands of dollars and received no service in return for it. They have kids to put through school and Christmas presents to buy, too. He got a real human to look into his account, incidentally, which I would have ki…

I'm having trouble understanding what rule he broke. He had some content with ads on it chosen by Google's algorithms. People clicked those ads, then didn't buy anything from the advertiser. How is that his fault? I don't mean this as a rhetorical question. I honestly want to know how someone with an ad-supported site can avoid such a situation. Edit: elsewhere in the comments, I see that he was telling his viewers t…

The rule is "Don't directly or indirectly tell people to click on your ads." The reason for this is that loyal audiences will, if you tell them to click on ads, click on ads to support you. This is exactly what happened. The CTR goes through the roof, the advertisers get billed lots of money, and no commerce takes place.

Re: Sacked by a Google algorithm

#130
post #14

...long story... Oh yes, I was also running little blocks of adverts provided by Adsense and, yes, I told my subscribers that I got some money if they visited the websites of those advertisers – all of whom were interested in selling stuff to sailors. ...long story... In the end it was click-fraud-ish. There's a huge fear for those dependent on google adsense that they will get terminated out of the blue like this. T…

Also: If a sailor buys a sailing book by entering Amazon via my website, I get a 5 per cent referral fee. If some-one spends $200 on a Kindle or a camera, [they] get their next three month s subscription for free. That's definitely abuse of Amazon's affiliate program and crosses the line from click-fraud-ish to full blown criminal fraud. Aside from being against the terms of their scheme, his clear intention is to in…

  The author abused his relationship with Google. He treated
  his most important customer as a cash cow. He ignores the
  fact that many of the advertisers footing the bill will be
  just like him - sole traders and small businesses barely
  scraping by. 
That's unnecessarily harsh. The author of the article had a win-win situation in mind: by endorsing the ads that were being displayed, he would get more money, but they would get more, serious, traffic. Suppose he had a private contract with an advertiser. Then that advertiser would applaud him saying 'please visit companyX: they sell stuff you may very well want to buy from them and they support this site'. There is no reason to suppose the intention was different in this case.

It seems you can display Google's ads, but should never comment on them in any way, not even to say 'Gosh, I really like how they so accurately list companyA, companyB and companyC as relevant for my site.' The first rule of using AdSense is, you don't talk about AdSense?

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