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Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

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Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#121

Post by munificent »

stirfrykitty wrote: post #37

I may be in the minority, but the older I get the more I want to be alone. I love my wife and kids, but there is almost too much pressure anymore to do this, do that. There are too many hands on my time. I recharge only when alone. I cannot do it with the TV on, kids in the background, etc. It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. I really like getting up at 0430 and being in the deer b…

I think I'm in a similar state as you. I loved living alone. Then I got married and had kids, so now I have three roommates, two of which frequently need interaction/help/etc. I crave solitude. The most blissful vacation I can imagine is just being alone in a cabin on a lake sitting coffee and reading. I spent two days driving to see the 2016 eclipse and living in my truck alone and it was absolute bliss.

At the same time, I find it easy to project that desire too far. I get less solitude than I would like now, so I feel that need, but I definitely don't want infinite solitude. While I liked living alone, I also remember getting quite lonely at times. It's easy for me to take for granted my social needs because they are being (more than) met right now.

One thing I do find a real challenge is a life that feels both socially full and shallow. With all of the tasks of being a full-time employee and parent today, my social calendar fills up quickly. I can really only see a couple of people a week. Kid birthday parties and other events like that overwhelm it. Because my kids are constantly making new friends, there is this parade of parents that enter and recede from my life. They're all nice people, but over time it gets harder to invest effort into friendship with them because I only see any given one of them every couple of months and even that may fade if our kids stop being friends. Not quite the "single serving friends" of Fight Club, but close.

At the same time, it's hard for me to maintain my own independent friendships on top of those acquaintances because there just isn't that much time. If I've already got a birthday party on Saturday and a playdate on Sunday, it's really hard to enjoy another social activity with my own friends on top of that. Even with people I consider close friends, I sometimes only see them once every couple of months.

I try to be mindful that this phase won't last forever. As my kids get older, they'll do more drop-off parties and eventually will get to their own social functions without me at all. They'll want less of my time until one day I'll wake up and the nest will be empty. I try to enjoy this time for what it is while it lasts.

My biggest worry is that by the time the kids are older and I have more room for my own close friends, those bonds will have withered along with my skills at socializing and I'll fail to reinvigorate them.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#122

Post by balfirevic »

Loughla wrote: post #103
ryanmercer wrote: post #13

I'm 34 and once you add in the weekends I am and talking is extremely discouraged at work, in an open office, so even at work you're basically alone just siting there listening to music or podcasts all day. At Gym1 I talk to my lifting coach but most of the time I'm in my head focused on training, after that at Gym2 I'm just trying to do my accessory work and conditioning and don't talk to anyone other than "hey" bac…

>but all my friends are married with kids and have zero free time. Then put yourself where they are. As a married friend with kids, I have made it clear to my friends without kids that if you want to hang out, we're headed to the pool or to a park with the kids for the most part. Occasionally we'll have time for adult nights, but because of our geography, childcare is hard to find. Some were okay with that and we're…

> That's not meant to be as preachy as it maybe sounds.

It does, probably because it's so asymmetric. Now, I guess it is expected that the one's own kids will be more important than friends. But this "if friendship is important" thing has to go both ways to at least some extent.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#123

Post by stirfrykitty »

ryanmercer wrote: post #72
Ididntdothis wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“talking is extremely discouraged at work, in an open office, so even at work you're basically alone just siting there listening to music or podcasts all day” That’s the nutty thing about open office. The thing that’s officially supposed to encourage collaboration leads to people sitting there with headphones trying to isolate themselves and rules to not talk to each other.

Our open office isn't for fostering communication or anything, we don't need to communicate, if you have time to communicate you aren't working. Our open office is so the team lead at the back of each row can watch everyone. :/

A sort of paid-worker panopticon situation is how I see it. I did the cube farm thing back when I worked for UUNet, and it sucked. Everyone talking, prairie dogging talking to the guy in the next cube, people farting out loud, the stinky food, the phone conversations of the admin next to you trying to work out some awful multi-spoke VPN issue with a distant office, cursing all the while and everyone within earshot hearing it. Not a good scene. One of the senior admins got a talking to for one night on his shift printed out name tags with "Winston Smith" and taping them over the 90 cubes in the office.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#124

Post by rayiner »

MiroF wrote: post #70
ixtli wrote: post #17

As an anecdote, I've lived the majority of my life in America (born and raised middle class on the east coast in a wealthy area) and if I was tasked with writing an account of my time here it would be focused around one thing: alienation. American life is atomized and consistently getting more so. For anyone who sits around and thinks about why people are the way they are here I highly encourage you to consider that…

Guys, you need to move the frick out of the suburbs. They're soul-killing. Cities are also atomized, but not to this extent. They're vibrant, booming, the schools are fine/good, and in my opinion, far worth the cut to house size.

I love cities, structurally. But I find the people soul-killing. I just have very little in common with young, childless people anymore. Even when we're experiencing the same things, we're not really experiencing the same things. If I go to MOMA, it's because I want to show my daughter Starry Night. I'm scoping out tickets to take her to Hamilton, because I feel guilty for going without her. My kids are super well-behaved, but I hate going into a restaurant with them in tow and watching young childless people glare at me. I know brave souls who are toughing it out in cities with young children, and more power to them. Meanwhile, there are 8 small kids and two teenagers on my block of 15-20 houses. I walk into the Whole Foods, and see other parents from my kid's school. The default is people like me.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#125

Post by stirfrykitty »

munificent wrote: post #121
stirfrykitty wrote: post #37

I may be in the minority, but the older I get the more I want to be alone. I love my wife and kids, but there is almost too much pressure anymore to do this, do that. There are too many hands on my time. I recharge only when alone. I cannot do it with the TV on, kids in the background, etc. It's one of the reasons I like hunting. Just me and the great outdoors. I really like getting up at 0430 and being in the deer b…

I think I'm in a similar state as you. I loved living alone. Then I got married and had kids, so now I have three roommates, two of which frequently need interaction/help/etc. I crave solitude. The most blissful vacation I can imagine is just being alone in a cabin on a lake sitting coffee and reading. I spent two days driving to see the 2016 eclipse and living in my truck alone and it was absolute bliss. At the same…

That was a fantastic post. I feel exactly the same way.

My kids sometimes feel too needy. Oftentimes I never get the desired downtime.

My wife got mad at me one day and said "You need to listen to Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle. Then come talk with me." It's a shock to listen to that song, because it's true. It would be easy to end up like that and no one want it.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#126

Post by saltcured »

nightski wrote: post #104
BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of this is culture (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism"... I seriously doubt it. I think all modern rich cultures have this. Sweden certainly does. As everyone gets rich enough to get your own house, you end up lonely, as you're no longer naturally interacting with others, since you don't need to.

That's strange. Maybe it depends on where? I have rented my entire life and never knew a neighbor. Recently bought a house and immediately not only met all my neighbors but one helped us clean up after a major wind storm came through the day we moved in. There are people & kids walking around our neighborhood constantly. I feel part of a community a lot more than I ever did before.

You are comparing "bought your own house" to "rent your own apartment" while the prior post, I think, was comparing "have your own living space" to "shared or multi-generational living space".

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#127

Post by stirfrykitty »

RobertDeNiro wrote: post #61
appleiigs wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't do Crossfit, but with all that time in the gym, I can see why their community spirit is very appealing. Edit. I also live with my retired mother. For her simply having the option to socialize with me is enough. She knows she can watch a movie with me at home or ask me to go grocery shopping with her.

I totally see crossfit as filling that gap that churches and religion left behind.

My church has tons of social offerings with tons of attendance. Men's groups, women's groups, teen groups. I recently went hunting with some men from my church for an entire weekend. A couple of weekends later, my wife went with the women on their retreat.

The issue is that most churches today in America are more or less social clubs. Christianity takes a back seat to less important things. Hence the mega churches in my area bleeding members in favor of small churches that focus on the Gospel, but yet do offer things for families.

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#128

Post by homonculus1 »

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #101
BurningFrog wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Part of this is culture (Americans fetishize a sort of "rugged individualism"... I seriously doubt it. I think all modern rich cultures have this. Sweden certainly does. As everyone gets rich enough to get your own house, you end up lonely, as you're no longer naturally interacting with others, since you don't need to.

Huh. Maybe its paradox of choice then? In our past we were pretty much forced into a community, and this is still largely true of the impoverished, but once you have a certain amount of wealth you're able to choose your community, and so PoC kicks in and paralyzes you.

No need to tarnish this discussion with disgusting racial paranoia

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#129

Post by AnIdiotOnTheNet »

homonculus1 wrote: post #128
AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh. Maybe its paradox of choice then? In our past we were pretty much forced into a community, and this is still largely true of the impoverished, but once you have a certain amount of wealth you're able to choose your community, and so PoC kicks in and paralyzes you.

No need to tarnish this discussion with disgusting racial paranoia

...what the fuck are you talking about?

Re: Older Americans are alone half their waking hours, on average

#130

Post by jbattle »

stirfrykitty wrote: post #125
munificent wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think I'm in a similar state as you. I loved living alone. Then I got married and had kids, so now I have three roommates, two of which frequently need interaction/help/etc. I crave solitude. The most blissful vacation I can imagine is just being alone in a cabin on a lake sitting coffee and reading. I spent two days driving to see the 2016 eclipse and living in my truck alone and it was absolute bliss. At the same…

That was a fantastic post. I feel exactly the same way. My kids sometimes feel too needy. Oftentimes I never get the desired downtime. My wife got mad at me one day and said "You need to listen to Harry Chapin's Cat's in the Cradle. Then come talk with me." It's a shock to listen to that song, because it's true. It would be easy to end up like that and no one want it.

I've always thought the best thing would be to have a time-travel machine. You could spend a day with your kids as infants and enjoy it. The next day you could spend with them as teens and enjoy it. Then the third day spend with them as 11 year-olds and enjoy it.

Each of those ages are incredible and filled with irreplaceable experiences. It's easy to get jaded when you move through them so slowly.

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