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Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

citylab.com

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Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#121

Post by mlevental »

maxlybbert wrote: post #118
mlevental wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that has almost nothing to do with what i asked

You asked “what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?” I answered “if you don’t take that case into account when setting minimum wage, then that worker won’t be able to get a job.” Minimum wage is the least you can pay anyone for any reason. It is, by definition, an edge case.

again - that has almost nothing to do with what i asked.

bls: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home....

> Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up just under half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less.

that means just over 50% of minimum wage earners are older than 25 (well outside the typical age where you're still living with your parents or just entering the workforce)

>It is, by definition, an edge case.

it is de-facto not an edge case.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#122

Post by bluGill »

SomeOldThrow wrote: post #108
bluGill wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind. Once you are willing to do that a bus ticket across the US is cheap.

> The hard part about moving is leaving family, friends, and stuff behind Tell that to the homeless, I dare you. It's certainly the attitude of a sheltered existence.

The homeless have problems mostly unrelated to minimum wage.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#123

Post by anbop »

sp332 wrote: post #43
kortilla wrote: post #16

Why should minimum wage be enough to support anything? It’s not like we have requirements that employers provide 40 hours of work.

A worker could get multiple jobs if one doesn't "provide" enough hours.

Not always, since a lot of jobs demand that you’re “available” way more than they actually schedule you, and ready to come in at a moments notice. They are trying to legislate this though.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#124

Post by titusjohnson »

sdinsn wrote: post #65
titusjohnson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think a company should be allowed to not pay a livable wage?

> a livable wage If someone can live in a 2/3 BR with roommates, that sounds pretty livable to me. I used to live in a house with 6 other people during college. I lived just fine.

This is kind of a tone-deaf comment, don't you think? It manages to highlight its posters success (went to college, left), humble brag about how frugal & uncomfortable the poster situation once was (lived with 6 roommates), and dismiss other experiences (I was just fine) in two sentences.

The common definition of a livable wage is enough income to "secure food, shelter, clothing, health care, transportation and other necessities of living in modern society"[1]. If you _need_ to procure the assistance of others to live, you're not making a livable wage. So if you need food stamps for food, you're not making a livable wage. The same is true for housing. If you _need_ to live with roommates because you cannot afford even a studio on your own, you're not making a livable wage.

Sure, you were just fine during your stint co-habitating with near-strangers. But we're not talking about temporary inconveniences. We're talking about an alternate situation where you had failed to launch and 10 years later, are still stuck with random roommates, still grinding the same shitty jobs, still trying to save but failing because the most you can pack away is $50/mo, and there's always something that needs to be fixed or bought that takes those savings up. We're talking about how public policy should be able to help you help yourself.

There is nothing remotely livable about $290/week (federal minimum), just in case you may have forgotten how small that number is.

[1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Living_wage

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#125

Post by maxlybbert »

mlevental wrote: post #121
maxlybbert wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You asked “what makes you think this is the typical minimum wage earner?” I answered “if you don’t take that case into account when setting minimum wage, then that worker won’t be able to get a job.” Minimum wage is the least you can pay anyone for any reason. It is, by definition, an edge case.

again - that has almost nothing to do with what i asked. bls: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.... > Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up just under half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. that means just over 50% of minimum wage earners are older than 25 (well outside the typical age where you're still living with…

While I’m sure most people over 25 still making minimum wage would prefer a pay raise, and for the sake of argument, I’ll even accept that the world would be a better place if they got that pay raise, if you raise the minimum wage enough that it’s no longer profitable to hire inexperienced workers, then those potential workers will be locked out of the market.

I acknowledge that there’s a serious problem if millions of experienced workers are unable to get more than minimum wage, but I would prefer we fix that by helping those workers become more valuable, not by putting a “you must be this tall to ride” sign on entry level jobs.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#126

Post by mlevental »

maxlybbert wrote: post #125
mlevental wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

again - that has almost nothing to do with what i asked. bls: https://www.bls.gov/opub/reports/minimum-wage/2018/pdf/home.... > Although workers under age 25 represented only about one-fifth of hourly paid workers, they made up just under half of those paid the federal minimum wage or less. that means just over 50% of minimum wage earners are older than 25 (well outside the typical age where you're still living with…

While I’m sure most people over 25 still making minimum wage would prefer a pay raise, and for the sake of argument, I’ll even accept that the world would be a better place if they got that pay raise, if you raise the minimum wage enough that it’s no longer profitable to hire inexperienced workers, then those potential workers will be locked out of the market. I acknowledge that there’s a serious problem if millions…

cool man you're welcome to take time off from your job and teach them to code at no cost. until then i'll vote for minimum wage increases.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#127

Post by titusjohnson »

leetcrew wrote: post #88
titusjohnson wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do you think a company should be allowed to not pay a livable wage?

because people will always consider a "living wage" to be 1.5-3x whatever the current minimum is.

I'm confused, are you saying that the tendency for people to want more means we should never re-assess what is considered enough? I hope I got it wrong -- how would you ever improve anything in your life if you live by that rule?

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#128

Post by hellisothers »

oconnore wrote: post #74
SketchySeaBeast wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know this for certain, that the minimum wage earner can, and that there is a large enough supply of housing available for them?

Whether or not they can afford a bottom quartile home is a different question than whether it's reasonable to expect them to afford a median home (and I don't think we have any evidence regarding that question here). They certainly aren't expected to be able to afford a top quartile home, for example, so I agree that the headline is a bit fishy. The whole situation is being drastically oversimplified, though. Whether…

This leaves out all the trade professions (plumber, electrician, etc) which I keep hearing are doing quite well.

Re: Minimum Wage Still Can’t Pay For A Two-Bedroom Apartment Anywhere

#130

Post by notacoward »

leetcrew wrote: post #120
Broken_Hippo wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you had kids while you had a decent job and the place closes, you should give away the kids because your replacement job is minimum wage? Is it the same if you wind up disabled and suddenly become a low earner? Or, I know, celibacy for everyone and hope you don't get raped? Free abortions when birth control fails, if you can afford birth control and aren't unlucky enough to have issues with it? Do you happen t…

> So, if you had kids while you had a decent job and the place closes, you should give away the kids because your replacement job is minimum wage? suddenly becoming unable to provide for your kids through no fault of your own is quite different from deciding to have children when you know (or should know) you already have no ability to support them. in both cases, we need to at least do something to help the children…

> I can look at what I spend to sustain myself every month

...and in doing so you make certain assumptions which might not be true for others. Like that your circumstances can only get better, never worse. The GP specifically asked about the latter, in the form of job loss. What if you decided that you were ready to have that child, quite reasonably acccording to those assumptions, and then those assumptions turned out to be incorrect. Would you blame yourself the way you seem to be blaming others?

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